My Flomax vs Uroxatral experience

Dunno about the stream, but the bladder capacity is
small whatever I take. (130ml). Flomax helps forget the pain
on social occasions when taken with panadeine (acetomenophen)

I have also had some significant long term help
with antihistamines as well. A small dose 2x daily.

Having had 2 diagnosed auto-immune diseases (rheumatoid
arthritis and lupus) I am considering a return to
gold - it really helped my RA those many years ago
and it is simple to do. (for me any way!). Maybe it
would also have some beneficial effect on interstial cystitis?

Thanx for the input.
Murray

Post by Jim W.
I've been on a regimen of Flomax and Ditropan XL for some years.
The Ditropan XL to relax bladder and the Flomax to reduce bladder neck
restriction. On the Flomax I definitely had an improved stream but still
had sense of restriction. My physician suggested I try Uroxatral.
The sense I got was that Uroxatral is really an 18 hour pill. I take it
after breakfast and typically notice an improved stream a few hours later,
and this lasts most of the same day. When I get up the next day or during
the night the flow is significantly restricted.
As long as I took the Flomax daily, I had no sense of peaks.
FWIW: I took the Flomax 30 minutes after breakfast, but I take the
Uroxatral immediately after eating.
Just sending this in case it's of help to others
Terry

Derek F

2006-02-03 21:22:58 UTC

You are the first person I have heard of to benefit from an antihistamine,
it is usually a No No for BPH sufferers causing retention.
Derek.

Post by Murray
Dunno about the stream, but the bladder capacity is
small whatever I take. (130ml). Flomax helps forget the pain
on social occasions when taken with panadeine (acetomenophen)
I have also had some significant long term help
with antihistamines as well. A small dose 2x daily.
Having had 2 diagnosed auto-immune diseases (rheumatoid
arthritis and lupus) I am considering a return to
gold - it really helped my RA those many years ago
and it is simple to do. (for me any way!). Maybe it
would also have some beneficial effect on interstial cystitis?
Thanx for the input.
Murray

Post by Jim W.
I've been on a regimen of Flomax and Ditropan XL for some years.
The Ditropan XL to relax bladder and the Flomax to reduce bladder neck
restriction. On the Flomax I definitely had an improved stream but still
had sense of restriction. My physician suggested I try Uroxatral.
The sense I got was that Uroxatral is really an 18 hour pill. I take it
after breakfast and typically notice an improved stream a few hours
later, and this lasts most of the same day. When I get up the next day
or during the night the flow is significantly restricted.
As long as I took the Flomax daily, I had no sense of peaks.
FWIW: I took the Flomax 30 minutes after breakfast, but I take the
Uroxatral immediately after eating.
Just sending this in case it's of help to others
Terry

Pete

2006-02-03 23:25:50 UTC

Post by Derek F
You are the first person I have heard of to benefit from an
antihistamine, it is usually a No No for BPH sufferers causing
retention.

Interesting :-)

Post by Derek F
Derek.

Post by Jim W.
I've been on a regimen of Flomax and Ditropan XL for some years.
The Ditropan XL to relax bladder and the Flomax to reduce bladder
neck restriction. On the Flomax I definitely had an improved
stream but still had sense of restriction. My physician suggested
I try Uroxatral. The sense I got was that Uroxatral is really an 18 hour
pill. I
take it after breakfast and typically notice an improved stream a
few hours later, and this lasts most of the same day. When I get
up the next day or during the night the flow is significantly
restricted. As long as I took the Flomax daily, I had no sense of
peaks.
FWIW: I took the Flomax 30 minutes after breakfast, but I take the
Uroxatral immediately after eating.
Just sending this in case it's of help to others
Terry

LMac

2006-02-04 04:48:56 UTC

Post by Derek F
You are the first person I have heard of to benefit from an
antihistamine, it is usually a No No for BPH sufferers causing
retention.

Interesting :-)

Ditto to Derek's post. A strong version of Sudafed was prescribed by
the Doc in the morning. Got it at the pharmacy at noon. The next
morning at 5 a.m. I as in an Urgent Care being catheterized. Although
I'd noticed some bph symptoms for a couple of years, those pills did the
number on my Urinary tract. Since then, I've had some nasal sprays
trigger the same problem. (seemed strange that something one would
inhale could hit the prostate--and fast too). ... LMac

Post by Derek F
Derek.

Post by Jim W.
I've been on a regimen of Flomax and Ditropan XL for some years.
The Ditropan XL to relax bladder and the Flomax to reduce bladder
neck restriction. On the Flomax I definitely had an improved
stream but still had sense of restriction. My physician suggested
I try Uroxatral. The sense I got was that Uroxatral is really an 18 hour
pill. I
take it after breakfast and typically notice an improved stream a
few hours later, and this lasts most of the same day. When I get
up the next day or during the night the flow is significantly
restricted. As long as I took the Flomax daily, I had no sense of
peaks.
FWIW: I took the Flomax 30 minutes after breakfast, but I take the
Uroxatral immediately after eating.
Just sending this in case it's of help to others
Terry

Pete

2006-02-04 23:35:41 UTC

Post by LMac

Post by Derek F
You are the first person I have heard of to benefit from an
antihistamine, it is usually a No No for BPH sufferers causing
retention.

Interesting :-)

Ditto to Derek's post. A strong version of Sudafed was prescribed by
the Doc in the morning. Got it at the pharmacy at noon. The next
morning at 5 a.m. I as in an Urgent Care being catheterized. Although
I'd noticed some bph symptoms for a couple of years, those pills did
the number on my Urinary tract. Since then, I've had some nasal
sprays trigger the same problem. (seemed strange that something one
would inhale could hit the prostate--and fast too). ... LMac

LMac...You need to understand the difference between decongestants and
antihistamines (even though both are supposed to be bad for BPH, but by
different mechanisms). I believe your sudafed and nasal sprays are probably
decongestants, although the sudafed could have an antihistamine combined in
with it (as in standard "cold type") pills, but I doubt the nasal spray does
[ie it would be decongestant (OTC) or corticosteroid or antihistamine (both
by prescription)]. Let me know. I'm curious. I always caution people
about reading things in newsgroups and on the internet regarding accuracy of
statements. I believe you may have been incorrect in your post. Just
trying to help...Pete

Post by LMac

Post by Derek F
Derek.

Post by Jim W.
I've been on a regimen of Flomax and Ditropan XL for some years.
The Ditropan XL to relax bladder and the Flomax to reduce bladder
neck restriction. On the Flomax I definitely had an improved
stream but still had sense of restriction. My physician
suggested I try Uroxatral. The sense I got was that Uroxatral is
really an
18 hour pill. I
take it after breakfast and typically notice an improved stream a
few hours later, and this lasts most of the same day. When I get
up the next day or during the night the flow is significantly
restricted. As long as I took the Flomax daily, I had no sense of
peaks.
FWIW: I took the Flomax 30 minutes after breakfast, but I take
the Uroxatral immediately after eating.
Just sending this in case it's of help to others
Terry

Murray

2006-02-04 05:19:16 UTC

The rationale behind trying it was from some
reading I did abt. the leaky bladder lining
which allowed urine into the interstial space
thus causing mast cells to rupture and release
histamine as part of the inflammatory response.

If I had known not to take antihistamines I
wouldn't have tried the experiment! :-)

But of course we aren't talking BPH here, are we?

I only eat 2x a day so I have a small dose before
every meal - if I remember.

Murray

Post by Derek F
You are the first person I have heard of to benefit from an
antihistamine, it is usually a No No for BPH sufferers causing
retention.

Interesting :-)
ote in message

Derek F

2006-02-05 23:24:15 UTC

Post by Derek F
You are the first person I have heard of to benefit from an
antihistamine, it is usually a No No for BPH sufferers causing
retention.

Interesting :-)

As are decongestants.
Derek.

Post by Derek F
Derek.

Post by Jim W.
I've been on a regimen of Flomax and Ditropan XL for some years.
The Ditropan XL to relax bladder and the Flomax to reduce bladder
neck restriction. On the Flomax I definitely had an improved
stream but still had sense of restriction. My physician suggested
I try Uroxatral. The sense I got was that Uroxatral is really an 18
hour pill. I
take it after breakfast and typically notice an improved stream a
few hours later, and this lasts most of the same day. When I get
up the next day or during the night the flow is significantly
restricted. As long as I took the Flomax daily, I had no sense of
peaks.
FWIW: I took the Flomax 30 minutes after breakfast, but I take the
Uroxatral immediately after eating.
Just sending this in case it's of help to others
Terry

Pete

2006-02-06 01:21:11 UTC

Post by Derek F
You are the first person I have heard of to benefit from an
antihistamine, it is usually a No No for BPH sufferers causing
retention.

Interesting :-)

As are decongestants.
Derek.

I think you took me wrong Derek. I meant it was interesting that the
antihistamines had an inverse effect on him (ie they helped him). Did you
read my response to LMac...Pete

Post by Derek F
Derek.

Post by Jim W.
I've been on a regimen of Flomax and Ditropan XL for some years.
The Ditropan XL to relax bladder and the Flomax to reduce bladder
neck restriction. On the Flomax I definitely had an improved
stream but still had sense of restriction. My physician
suggested I try Uroxatral. The sense I got was that Uroxatral is
really an 18 hour pill. I
take it after breakfast and typically notice an improved stream a
few hours later, and this lasts most of the same day. When I get
up the next day or during the night the flow is significantly
restricted. As long as I took the Flomax daily, I had no sense of
peaks.
FWIW: I took the Flomax 30 minutes after breakfast, but I take
the Uroxatral immediately after eating.
Just sending this in case it's of help to others
Terry

Derek F

2006-02-06 18:53:55 UTC

Post by Derek F
You are the first person I have heard of to benefit from an
antihistamine, it is usually a No No for BPH sufferers causing
retention.

Interesting :-)

As are decongestants.
Derek.

I think you took me wrong Derek. I meant it was interesting that the
antihistamines had an inverse effect on him (ie they helped him). Did you
read my response to LMac...Pete

Yes but only after I had posted my reply :-)
Derek.

Post by Derek F
Derek.

Post by Jim W.
I've been on a regimen of Flomax and Ditropan XL for some years.
The Ditropan XL to relax bladder and the Flomax to reduce bladder
neck restriction. On the Flomax I definitely had an improved
stream but still had sense of restriction. My physician
suggested I try Uroxatral. The sense I got was that Uroxatral is
really an 18 hour pill. I
take it after breakfast and typically notice an improved stream a
few hours later, and this lasts most of the same day. When I get
up the next day or during the night the flow is significantly
restricted. As long as I took the Flomax daily, I had no sense of
peaks.
FWIW: I took the Flomax 30 minutes after breakfast, but I take
the Uroxatral immediately after eating.
Just sending this in case it's of help to others
Terry

George

2006-02-05 08:57:42 UTC

Post by Derek F
You are the first person I have heard of to benefit from an
antihistamine, it is usually a No No for BPH sufferers causing retention.
Derek.

Hi Derek. I've been taking antihistamines for allergies (another
autoimmune disease) for many years. My urologist put me on atarax for my
IC about a year ago, and over time it has made a big difference with the
pain. Unfortunately, I am currently unemployed (which means I currently
don't have insurance), and my doctor is now telling me that I have to come
in to see him before he will refill my prescription. So I'm currently not
taking the atarax, and am having some pain again. I don't hink it is for
everyone, though. Some tolerate it better than others. Since I've taken
antihistamines for many years, the atarax doesn't make me too drowsy.
Others report that it knocks them out. Of course, I take it right before I
go to bed anyway.

George<IC sufferer for ten years>

Post by Jim W.
I've been on a regimen of Flomax and Ditropan XL for some years.
The Ditropan XL to relax bladder and the Flomax to reduce bladder neck
restriction. On the Flomax I definitely had an improved stream but
still had sense of restriction. My physician suggested I try
Uroxatral.
The sense I got was that Uroxatral is really an 18 hour pill. I take
it after breakfast and typically notice an improved stream a few hours
later, and this lasts most of the same day. When I get up the next day
or during the night the flow is significantly restricted.
As long as I took the Flomax daily, I had no sense of peaks.
FWIW: I took the Flomax 30 minutes after breakfast, but I take the
Uroxatral immediately after eating.
Just sending this in case it's of help to others
Terry

All Things Mopar

2006-02-05 13:55:49 UTC

Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

Post by George
Hi Derek. I've been taking antihistamines for allergies
(another autoimmune disease) for many years. My urologist
put me on atarax for my IC about a year ago, and over time
it has made a big difference with the pain. Unfortunately,
I am currently unemployed (which means I currently don't
have insurance), and my doctor is now telling me that I
have to come in to see him before he will refill my
prescription. So I'm currently not taking the atarax, and
am having some pain again. I don't hink it is for
everyone, though. Some tolerate it better than others.
Since I've taken antihistamines for many years, the atarax
doesn't make me too drowsy. Others report that it knocks
them out. Of course, I take it right before I go to bed
anyway.

I need to ask my doctor about Atarax when I see him in a
couple weeks. I've been enduring DMSO treatments again, which
are quite painful to me. Worse, my doc wants me to hold the
stuff in my bladder for a minimum of 30 minutes, even though
clinical studies show that no more than 12-15 minutes are
necessary. He really wants 45 minutes, but I can't take the
pain.

I stopped taking Elavil and Elmiron as they had no noticeable
affect and were worsening my constipation problems. I had
another failed attempt at IC relief via hydrodistension last
fall, and my doc wants to scope me to see what happened. Well,
I already know it failed.

People keep careful diaries of what they're doing or what
they're eating which makes their IC get worse or better. I do
mine mentally (got a good memory! <grin>). I've not noticed
triggering more pain if I do it or less if I don't, /except/
for my IBS with constipation.

Anatomically, large and small intestines are on top the
bladder, particularly the sigmoid color on rectum. It took
quite a while to make the connection, but on the uphill side
of weeking constipation/loose stool cycles I get IC pain, and
when it "lets loose", I get pain.

Now, I'd /really/ like to fix my bowel problems, which have
grown worse in the last 4-6 years, and noticeably worse in the
last year. Besides extreme discomfort, hemmoroid bleeding, and
the IC, I also get uncontrollably nauseus which often makes it
impossible to eat. I never vomit, but feel like you do just
before you hurl.

There's a known link between IBS and IC but neither the gasto
or uro guys know exactly what it is. I'm been putting off
going to the University of Michigan Medical Center for an
IBS/nausea consult, but somehow I have to get the intestinal
fortitude to do it, along with the obligatory obnoxious
testing.

We all know our own bodies far better than any doctor does, so
I'm convinced that if I can fix the IBS, I'll also fix my IC.
And, I'll stop the weight loss slide I'm on, where I've lost
over 20 pounds in the last year. And, I was already skinny!

--
ATM, aka Jerry

Pete

2006-02-05 20:13:21 UTC

Jerry...I see you and George have finally wandered in here (both at the same
time - interesting). I didn't think you IC sufferers cared too much about
BPH or prostatis :-) . Welcome...Pete

Post by All Things Mopar
Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

I need to ask my doctor about Atarax when I see him in a
couple weeks. I've been enduring DMSO treatments again, which
are quite painful to me. Worse, my doc wants me to hold the
stuff in my bladder for a minimum of 30 minutes, even though
clinical studies show that no more than 12-15 minutes are
necessary. He really wants 45 minutes, but I can't take the
pain.
I stopped taking Elavil and Elmiron as they had no noticeable
affect and were worsening my constipation problems. I had
another failed attempt at IC relief via hydrodistension last
fall, and my doc wants to scope me to see what happened. Well,
I already know it failed.
People keep careful diaries of what they're doing or what
they're eating which makes their IC get worse or better. I do
mine mentally (got a good memory! <grin>). I've not noticed
triggering more pain if I do it or less if I don't, /except/
for my IBS with constipation.
Anatomically, large and small intestines are on top the
bladder, particularly the sigmoid color on rectum. It took
quite a while to make the connection, but on the uphill side
of weeking constipation/loose stool cycles I get IC pain, and
when it "lets loose", I get pain.
Now, I'd /really/ like to fix my bowel problems, which have
grown worse in the last 4-6 years, and noticeably worse in the
last year. Besides extreme discomfort, hemmoroid bleeding, and
the IC, I also get uncontrollably nauseus which often makes it
impossible to eat. I never vomit, but feel like you do just
before you hurl.
There's a known link between IBS and IC but neither the gasto
or uro guys know exactly what it is. I'm been putting off
going to the University of Michigan Medical Center for an
IBS/nausea consult, but somehow I have to get the intestinal
fortitude to do it, along with the obligatory obnoxious
testing.
We all know our own bodies far better than any doctor does, so
I'm convinced that if I can fix the IBS, I'll also fix my IC.
And, I'll stop the weight loss slide I'm on, where I've lost
over 20 pounds in the last year. And, I was already skinny!

All Things Mopar

2006-02-06 00:01:33 UTC

Today Pete commented courteously on the subject at hand

Post by Pete
Jerry...I see you and George have finally wandered in here
(both at the same time - interesting). I didn't think you
IC sufferers cared too much about BPH or prostatis :-) .
Welcome...Pete

Actually, I do, Pete. And, you and I talked some last year.

My journey into urology actually was BPH. In December, 2002,
one night I just couldn't pee. Right out of the blue. Went to
the ER, got a Foley put in, which hurt like hell, and started
down 5 months of hell from my first urologist. He refused to
give me a high enough dose of Hytrin to shrink my prostate and
had me self-catheterizing 8+ times a day. I fired his ass and
hired the head of urology for our local hospital, still my doc
today.

He tried TUMT and TUNA after the Hytrin 10mg stopped working,
but both failed. So, a year ago, I underwent holmium laser
therapy, which is a wnd or 3rd generation laser beam version
of good old TURP. the nurse anthetist didn't give me enough
Propofol to put me out, and the damn doctor didn't wait to
know I was under before he started. Gawd! Never felt pain like
that!

About the time the prostate swelling should've gone down,
maybe 3 months later, I had more trouble peeing, only I
couldn't get my straight cath in past the sphincter reliably.
That got "traced" to IC, which can confuse the sphincter.
Seems that in some people - lucky me! - the sphincter "knows"
not to leak, which is a side-effect of any surgical or
prostate reduction, so it clamps down. Getting a cath through
is almost impossible, hurts like hell, and damages the tissue.

I've been pretty much on a Foley ever since. After I got the
blinking doctor to prescribe Detropan 5mg twice a day while
I've got a cath in, it is quite comfortable. Far better than
self-cathing or spending hours in an ER in pain, then get a
$1,000 bill because my insurance thinks it's not a life-
threatening condition.

I'm seeing him in 10 days for a follow-up cystoscopy. I have
no clue what /he/ will see, but /I/ know my IC is still there.
Besides the flare-ups I described related to my constipation
and aftermath loose stool events, I can also feel considerable
pain if anything causes the Foley not to drain. I'm an
engineer and know that a Foley works primarily on gravity, but
depends on capillary action the rest of the time. That's why
you can have the leg back almost as high as the end of your
dick and it'll still drain. But, if I put my feet up on the
coffee table or lay at just the right angle on my side while
sleeping, gravity can't work and cap isn't enough. Hence the
bladder fills, and the pain starts at around 100-150ml,
sometimes a little higher.

To comment just a bit further on my experience with BPH, my
other prescription drugs, such as Norco, Xanax, Ambien, and
some others have the same nasty side effect as all anti-
histamines - they cause or aggravate retention.

I like my doc, but he's got two main things he does that annoy
me: he play it close-to-the-vest with his long-term planning
so I don't know what he's thinking, and he won't let me get a
consult from another doctor in my area who is nationally known
as an IC expert. The former is because hhe allegedly doesn't
want to scare me, but I'd rather know than not know. The
latter is because of what he calls "professional jealousy" -
in other words, they don't like each other.

Still, he can't stop me from getting a consult from the guy he
hates, but he can - and would - fire me as a patient if I go
without his blessing. And, I can't do it on the QT because
he'd see any hospital test results show up on his screen since
both docs are piped into the hospital computer system.

These are the 2 very best urologists I can find without
traveling great distances. I can't get to the new guy without
pissing off the older dude. Gad!

As the country song says "that's my story and I'm sticking to
it!"

--
ATM, aka Jerry

Pete

2006-02-06 01:37:58 UTC

Jerry...I remember all our long posts (I have saved some of them for my data
base). You didn't have to write so much for me, but maybe the others can
glean from it. Are you going to be in here every so often or is this just a
quick stop by. I see the IC group is totally dead now. I was surprised you
or George didn't respond to my last post in there about the cyclosporine. I
see the same messages duplicated in there from Jim W. (I don't agree with
cross posting - way too much redundancy for people who may not be
interested - I copy/paste and send individually - oh well). Take
care...Pete

George

2006-02-06 03:56:15 UTC

Post by Pete
Jerry...I remember all our long posts (I have saved some of them for my
data base). You didn't have to write so much for me, but maybe the
others can glean from it. Are you going to be in here every so often or
is this just a quick stop by. I see the IC group is totally dead now. I
was surprised you or George didn't respond to my last post in there about
the cyclosporine. I see the same messages duplicated in there from Jim
W. (I don't agree with cross posting - way too much redundancy for people
who may not be interested - I copy/paste and send individually - oh
well). Take care...Pete

I didn't respond to it pthwer than to the one post I made because I have no
experience with that drug and didn't think there was anything that I could
contribute. I do agree that anyone who takes it needs to be aware of the
potential for immunosuppression, and take adequate precautions. It is
definitely a serious drug, one that needs the supervision of a competent
healthcare professional. Having said that, I re-iterate what I said about
that research, and that is that it reinforces my conviction that this
disease is an autoimmune disease, and also explains why antihistamines
apparently help some of us.

George

All Things Mopar

2006-02-06 09:41:27 UTC

Today Pete commented courteously on the subject at hand

Post by Pete
Jerry...I remember all our long posts (I have saved some of
them for my data base). You didn't have to write so much
for me, but maybe the others can glean from it.

Pete, I'm naturally wordy. <grin> Also, it helps me to vent.
That's not a. <g> A further <non-grin>, a reader can snip
parts of a long post not of interest to them or simply skip
over the boring parts, but they cannon insert info where none
exists. So, on car picture NGs, PC support NGs, Paint Shop
Pro, etc., I tend to say more than is asked for and let people
just ignore what doesn't interest them. The only downside for
me is a little more typing and maybe some folks plonking me
for being a babbling brook.

Post by Pete
Are you going to be in here every so often or is this just
a quick stop by. I see the IC group is totally dead now.
I was surprised you or George didn't respond to my last
post in there about the cyclosporine.

I saw it but didn't have any experience to offer and no
questions.

Post by Pete
I see the same
messages duplicated in there from Jim W. (I don't agree
with cross posting - way too much redundancy for people
who may not be interested - I copy/paste and send
individually - oh well).

Pete, I subscribe to this NG in Xnews. Whenever I start a
session, I update all the subscription headers, so I
immediately see if someone has posted here or not. It's a
pretty sparse group and always has been. I think it was 6
months before George answered my original message. I've not
said much of late because there just isn't any news for me to
report, other than "no news /is/ bad news" for me.

I jumped into this thread primarily to help any fellow IC
sufferers that might also be BPH sufferers, as you observed. I
wanted them to know a little about other common drugs that
affect retention as well as comment on my negative
experiences.

In college, I was educated as an engineer and so needed to
learn probability and statistics. When it comes to both IBS
and IC, I'm always somehow on the wrong end of a probability
distribution for the effficacy of a treatment. You know "xxx
is known to help from 20-35% of patients". Well, I'm always in
the "65-80%" range. My bad luck, I guess.

--
ATM, aka Jerry

Gordon Burditt

2006-02-16 19:55:58 UTC

Post by All Things Mopar
My journey into urology actually was BPH. In December, 2002,
one night I just couldn't pee. Right out of the blue. Went to
the ER, got a Foley put in, which hurt like hell, and started

This kind of thing scares me, especially having been to the emergency
room for a kidney stone and having to wait hours. And I actually
think I got off easy on the kidney stone - it wasn't that large and
the pain not as bad as others have described.

I'm 54, and I've been diagnosed with BPH, and my doctor has described
my prostate as "large" and "hard" and "with a lump". PSA 0.8,
negative prostate biopsy, so I don't think I have to worry about
cancer just yet. I have some symptoms of going to the bathroom in
the middle of the night and start/stop flow, but I'm taking no
medications for it nor do I think I need any - yet. But I could
easily see that I might need some of the medications discussed here
in 5 years and having a PVP in 10.

Question: would it make sense for me to learn how to self-cath,
NOW, get a few catheters, and try it out a couple of times? I'm
not trying to avoid doctors, but if "right out of the blue" some
morning, I can't pee, I think it would be much easier on me to
self-cath, THEN try to make an emergency appointment with my uro
or go to the emergency room (empty), than head for the emergency
room already very full and have to wait a few hours. That's IF I
managed to make it trying to drive under the influence of a lot of
pain. Then I'd tell the doctor just what I did and if he wants to
yell at me, fine, it was worth it. I know I need to be careful
about infections. I might not need to self-cath for 20 years, and
it doesn't sound very pleasant, but knowing how seems like cheap
insurance.

I suppose how much self-cathing hurts depends on the situation.
Just testing might not hurt much at all, except due to my own
clumsiness. Clogged up when I really need it might be much worse.
If I suddenly "out of the blue" can't pee (as distinguished from a
different situation, like post-operative problems), and I self-cath,
is that likely to "ream out" the channel or will I likely have to
keep doing it every 6 hours or so until I get help from a more
permanent catheter, medication or surgery? I don't know how quick
I could get an emergency appointment with my uro.

I'm alone. This by itself causes problems I don't always forsee,
and doctors usually don't see any problem either, even when it's
pointed out to them. For instance, I knew I'd need help getting
home after a colonoscopy due to the anaesthesia (actually, the
described effect of the drug was more like a date-rape drug - you
forget the pain rather than not feel it). That part worked OK,
after a difficult time finding someone to help. She put me in bed,
then left, like I asked. I didn't expect to end up home alone lying
in my own mess after 3 days, unable to sit up without passing out,
unable to phone anyone, getting VERY thirsty, not real sure I'd
left the hospital yet and not real sure I was still alive, and
unable to indicate a problem to a person standing next to me if
there had been one. I got out of that one on my own, barely, but
next time I might not be so lucky and wind up dead of dehydration
a week later. Russian roulette would have been safer, but the whole
time I was blissfully unaware of any problems, except thirst. No
pain, either.

I don't know how I'd recover (alone) from a PVP, TURP, or similar
procedure. Maybe they should throw me into the coma ward until I'm
strong enough to demand to be let out. It might be cheaper than
24x7 babysitters making sure I am still breathing and trying to
force me to take water and food while still asleep. Anaesthesia
knocks me out pretty hard and even if I'm awake I end up with the
awareness of at best a retarded 5-year-old for a while.

Gordon L. Burditt

John W. Barron

2006-02-16 21:00:40 UTC

I would go slowly abut self cath. because it is a very easy way to
introduce bacteria into the bladder and cause one hell of an infection.
Believe me, it isn't something you want to do without medical
supervision of some sort..

This kind of thing scares me, especially having been to the emergency
room for a kidney stone and having to wait hours. And I actually
think I got off easy on the kidney stone - it wasn't that large and
the pain not as bad as others have described.
I'm 54, and I've been diagnosed with BPH, and my doctor has described
my prostate as "large" and "hard" and "with a lump". PSA 0.8,
negative prostate biopsy, so I don't think I have to worry about
cancer just yet. I have some symptoms of going to the bathroom in
the middle of the night and start/stop flow, but I'm taking no
medications for it nor do I think I need any - yet. But I could
easily see that I might need some of the medications discussed here
in 5 years and having a PVP in 10.
Question: would it make sense for me to learn how to self-cath,
NOW, get a few catheters, and try it out a couple of times? I'm
not trying to avoid doctors, but if "right out of the blue" some
morning, I can't pee, I think it would be much easier on me to
self-cath, THEN try to make an emergency appointment with my uro
or go to the emergency room (empty), than head for the emergency
room already very full and have to wait a few hours. That's IF I
managed to make it trying to drive under the influence of a lot of
pain. Then I'd tell the doctor just what I did and if he wants to
yell at me, fine, it was worth it. I know I need to be careful
about infections. I might not need to self-cath for 20 years, and
it doesn't sound very pleasant, but knowing how seems like cheap
insurance.
I suppose how much self-cathing hurts depends on the situation.
Just testing might not hurt much at all, except due to my own
clumsiness. Clogged up when I really need it might be much worse.
If I suddenly "out of the blue" can't pee (as distinguished from a
different situation, like post-operative problems), and I self-cath,
is that likely to "ream out" the channel or will I likely have to
keep doing it every 6 hours or so until I get help from a more
permanent catheter, medication or surgery? I don't know how quick
I could get an emergency appointment with my uro.
I'm alone. This by itself causes problems I don't always forsee,
and doctors usually don't see any problem either, even when it's
pointed out to them. For instance, I knew I'd need help getting
home after a colonoscopy due to the anaesthesia (actually, the
described effect of the drug was more like a date-rape drug - you
forget the pain rather than not feel it). That part worked OK,
after a difficult time finding someone to help. She put me in bed,
then left, like I asked. I didn't expect to end up home alone lying
in my own mess after 3 days, unable to sit up without passing out,
unable to phone anyone, getting VERY thirsty, not real sure I'd
left the hospital yet and not real sure I was still alive, and
unable to indicate a problem to a person standing next to me if
there had been one. I got out of that one on my own, barely, but
next time I might not be so lucky and wind up dead of dehydration
a week later. Russian roulette would have been safer, but the whole
time I was blissfully unaware of any problems, except thirst. No
pain, either.
I don't know how I'd recover (alone) from a PVP, TURP, or similar
procedure. Maybe they should throw me into the coma ward until I'm
strong enough to demand to be let out. It might be cheaper than
24x7 babysitters making sure I am still breathing and trying to
force me to take water and food while still asleep. Anaesthesia
knocks me out pretty hard and even if I'm awake I end up with the
awareness of at best a retarded 5-year-old for a while.
Gordon L. Burditt

Pete

2006-02-17 00:55:32 UTC

Post by Gordon Burditt
I don't know how I'd recover (alone) from a PVP, TURP, or similar
procedure. Maybe they should throw me into the coma ward until I'm
strong enough to demand to be let out. It might be cheaper than
24x7 babysitters making sure I am still breathing and trying to
force me to take water and food while still asleep. Anaesthesia
knocks me out pretty hard and even if I'm awake I end up with the
awareness of at best a retarded 5-year-old for a while.
Gordon L. Burditt

Gordon...I read your post with interest. You obviously have an allergic
type reaction of some sort to anesthesia. I too know what its like to live
alone, and do not have anyone to help me (I am screwed), except for one
person and its like pulling teeth, even though I pay her - second wife's
daughter :-) . May I ask how old you are...Pete.

Gordon Burditt

2006-02-17 06:03:24 UTC

My original post said I was 54.

I had reasonable luck finding help calling a normal babysitting
service. I had thought about taxis, but that wouldn't get me inside,
and the nurses specifically recommended against them - guess they
had been cheating patients who were rather out of it. I think I
freaked out some of the services who thought I was some kind of
pervert, asking for someone to "babysit" *me*, a 54-year-old man.
None of them actually called me a pervert but their voices were a
bit strange, and some never called back.

Some of them also cater to seniors but want ongoing customers who
are going to need help several times a week. I tried to be up front
about what I wanted: take me to the hospital, wait a couple of
hours, bring me home even though I would be sorta half-conscious
and wobbly, and put me in bed, then leave me there. For $50 it was
a bargain. I'm not real sure how she did that. She didn't drag
me (would have left marks) and she wasn't big enough to lift me.
I guess I could walk enough for her to lead me around. I do know
I wasn't real sure where I was even 3 days later. It's also an
interesting question as to how I got back into street clothes.

I probably could have also asked her to come back and help me with
meals for the next couple of days, but that doesn't help much if
I'm out cold. At the time I didn't think there would be a problem
after I got home. I had food and water within supposedly easy
reach, which I couldn't get to for the first 3 1/2 days. My head
was about 2 feet away from a phone, which I didn't have the
coordination to dial. And I can't call for help if I don't even
realize I need it. The doctor said I would be back to normal
activities THAT EVENING (and I'd probably be dead if I had believed
that). A survey of people I know who had colonoscopies gave minimum
time to recover at 1 1/2 days (1 person), and most said 2 to 2 1/2
days. My own estimate, based on prior experience with valium and
dental surgery, was that I'd be pretty much useless for 3 days.
That proved to be a bit low.

I probably was over the anaesthetic after about 2 - 2 1/2 days. At
that point I was in the catch-22 of not being able to get up to get
water due to dehydration (and I wasn't allowed to drink anything
in the 12 hours before the surgery, so I was thirsty going into
it). Dehydration and the associated mental confusion only gets
worse if all I can do is lie there, and I was past the point of no
return: no way I could get up to get water from the bathroom or
kitchen. If I'd spilled all of the bedside pitcher of water instead
of half of it trying to get to it, I might have lasted another week
but still be lying there (my house is paid for so nobody would be
trying to evict me and discover the body).

If I had to do it over again (and they want me to have another
colonoscopy in 4 years, and who knows what my uro will come up
with), some of my requests would freak out most anyone. The amount
of force needed to wake me up from a very deep sleep and make me
take food and water would probably be considered abusive if applied
to children or seniors. If it kept me alive, I wouldn't object to
using an electric cattle prod to wake me up, but I doubt I could
convince them of that. And forcing (liquid) food down the throat
of an unconscious patient is probably risky.

Gordon L. Burditt

2006-02-17 11:51:01 UTC

You need to talk to the anesthetiologist, not the uro or other doctor.
Next procedure, request an advance consultation with him/her. Also find
out what was used on you so as to try something different next time.

My original post said I was 54.
I had reasonable luck finding help calling a normal babysitting
service. I had thought about taxis, but that wouldn't get me inside,
and the nurses specifically recommended against them - guess they
had been cheating patients who were rather out of it. I think I
freaked out some of the services who thought I was some kind of
pervert, asking for someone to "babysit" *me*, a 54-year-old man.
None of them actually called me a pervert but their voices were a
bit strange, and some never called back.
Some of them also cater to seniors but want ongoing customers who
are going to need help several times a week. I tried to be up front
about what I wanted: take me to the hospital, wait a couple of
hours, bring me home even though I would be sorta half-conscious
and wobbly, and put me in bed, then leave me there. For $50 it was
a bargain. I'm not real sure how she did that. She didn't drag
me (would have left marks) and she wasn't big enough to lift me.
I guess I could walk enough for her to lead me around. I do know
I wasn't real sure where I was even 3 days later. It's also an
interesting question as to how I got back into street clothes.
I probably could have also asked her to come back and help me with
meals for the next couple of days, but that doesn't help much if
I'm out cold. At the time I didn't think there would be a problem
after I got home. I had food and water within supposedly easy
reach, which I couldn't get to for the first 3 1/2 days. My head
was about 2 feet away from a phone, which I didn't have the
coordination to dial. And I can't call for help if I don't even
realize I need it. The doctor said I would be back to normal
activities THAT EVENING (and I'd probably be dead if I had believed
that). A survey of people I know who had colonoscopies gave minimum
time to recover at 1 1/2 days (1 person), and most said 2 to 2 1/2
days. My own estimate, based on prior experience with valium and
dental surgery, was that I'd be pretty much useless for 3 days.
That proved to be a bit low.
I probably was over the anaesthetic after about 2 - 2 1/2 days. At
that point I was in the catch-22 of not being able to get up to get
water due to dehydration (and I wasn't allowed to drink anything
in the 12 hours before the surgery, so I was thirsty going into
it). Dehydration and the associated mental confusion only gets
worse if all I can do is lie there, and I was past the point of no
return: no way I could get up to get water from the bathroom or
kitchen. If I'd spilled all of the bedside pitcher of water instead
of half of it trying to get to it, I might have lasted another week
but still be lying there (my house is paid for so nobody would be
trying to evict me and discover the body).
If I had to do it over again (and they want me to have another
colonoscopy in 4 years, and who knows what my uro will come up
with), some of my requests would freak out most anyone. The amount
of force needed to wake me up from a very deep sleep and make me
take food and water would probably be considered abusive if applied
to children or seniors. If it kept me alive, I wouldn't object to
using an electric cattle prod to wake me up, but I doubt I could
convince them of that. And forcing (liquid) food down the throat
of an unconscious patient is probably risky.
Gordon L. Burditt

Pete

2006-02-18 01:27:18 UTC

Post by Al
You need to talk to the anesthetiologist, not the uro or other doctor.
Next procedure, request an advance consultation with him/her. Also
find out what was used on you so as to try something different next
time.

Gordon...Al is right - do what he suggests. Your reactions to anesthesia
are highly abnormal. I have had many procedures (EGD's and colonoscopies)
with "propofil" (it seems to be the latest and greatest for sometime now -
at least in Maryland). It is awsome, quick acting, quick recovery, and no
big hangover. I could easily drive myself home but the laws don't allow
that (and I understand). And they will not allow taxi's either (which I
don't agree with), and really pisses me off, and it is a real problem for me
to get the one person to take me. My heart is with you. Sorry I missed
that you said you were 54 in your OP. I'm usually more careful than that,
but it was a rather long post :-[ ...Pete

Post by Al

Gordon...I read your post with interest. You obviously have an
allergic type reaction of some sort to anesthesia. I too know what
its like to live alone, and do not have anyone to help me (I am
screwed), except for one person and its like pulling teeth, even
though I pay her - second wife's daughter :-) . May I ask how old
you are...Pete.

My original post said I was 54.
I had reasonable luck finding help calling a normal babysitting
service. I had thought about taxis, but that wouldn't get me inside,
and the nurses specifically recommended against them - guess they
had been cheating patients who were rather out of it. I think I
freaked out some of the services who thought I was some kind of
pervert, asking for someone to "babysit" *me*, a 54-year-old man.
None of them actually called me a pervert but their voices were a
bit strange, and some never called back.
Some of them also cater to seniors but want ongoing customers who
are going to need help several times a week. I tried to be up front
about what I wanted: take me to the hospital, wait a couple of
hours, bring me home even though I would be sorta half-conscious
and wobbly, and put me in bed, then leave me there. For $50 it was
a bargain. I'm not real sure how she did that. She didn't drag
me (would have left marks) and she wasn't big enough to lift me.
I guess I could walk enough for her to lead me around. I do know
I wasn't real sure where I was even 3 days later. It's also an
interesting question as to how I got back into street clothes.
I probably could have also asked her to come back and help me with
meals for the next couple of days, but that doesn't help much if
I'm out cold. At the time I didn't think there would be a problem
after I got home. I had food and water within supposedly easy
reach, which I couldn't get to for the first 3 1/2 days. My head
was about 2 feet away from a phone, which I didn't have the
coordination to dial. And I can't call for help if I don't even
realize I need it. The doctor said I would be back to normal
activities THAT EVENING (and I'd probably be dead if I had believed
that). A survey of people I know who had colonoscopies gave minimum
time to recover at 1 1/2 days (1 person), and most said 2 to 2 1/2
days. My own estimate, based on prior experience with valium and
dental surgery, was that I'd be pretty much useless for 3 days.
That proved to be a bit low.
I probably was over the anaesthetic after about 2 - 2 1/2 days. At
that point I was in the catch-22 of not being able to get up to get
water due to dehydration (and I wasn't allowed to drink anything
in the 12 hours before the surgery, so I was thirsty going into
it). Dehydration and the associated mental confusion only gets
worse if all I can do is lie there, and I was past the point of no
return: no way I could get up to get water from the bathroom or
kitchen. If I'd spilled all of the bedside pitcher of water instead
of half of it trying to get to it, I might have lasted another week
but still be lying there (my house is paid for so nobody would be
trying to evict me and discover the body).
If I had to do it over again (and they want me to have another
colonoscopy in 4 years, and who knows what my uro will come up
with), some of my requests would freak out most anyone. The amount
of force needed to wake me up from a very deep sleep and make me
take food and water would probably be considered abusive if applied
to children or seniors. If it kept me alive, I wouldn't object to
using an electric cattle prod to wake me up, but I doubt I could
convince them of that. And forcing (liquid) food down the throat
of an unconscious patient is probably risky.
Gordon L. Burditt

Gordon Burditt

2006-02-18 05:16:57 UTC

Is propofil described as "making you forget the pain rather than
not feel it in the first place"? If not, I probably had something
different. What I had was well documented to mess with memory,
according to the doctor, and it sure did. Actually, I'm not sure
you can call a drug that works as he described as an "anesthetic"
at all, any more than hypnosis AFTER the procedure to make me forget
it would be.

I also have to wonder if I was screaming my lungs out during the
colonoscopy. I don't remember any pain, but who knows what I forgot.

Are my reactions to anesthesia abnormal in terms of duration? I
think I would have recovered in about 2 days if someone had been
around to make me take water, and my informal poll of recovery time
after a colonoscopy of a dozen people ranged from 1 1/2 days to 4
days, with most in the 2 - 2 1/2 day range. The doctor's claim of
1/2 a day seems to be the odd one out.

I suspect I might have had the same problem with dehydration if
they'd just strapped me to the bed instead of anesthesia (and forget
doing the colonoscopy). After 3 1/2 days unstrapping me (but still
leaving me alone) might not help.

Gordon L. Burditt

Pete

2006-02-18 21:03:32 UTC

Post by Al
You need to talk to the anesthetiologist, not the uro or other
doctor. Next procedure, request an advance consultation with
him/her. Also find out what was used on you so as to try something
different next time.

Is propofil described as "making you forget the pain rather than
not feel it in the first place"?

Gordon...this question is a little too profound for me, and I am not an
anesthesiologist. All I can say is that you can read about propofil
(Diprivan) by googling (also check "Versed" if you want). I believe if you
are unconscious you will not feel pain for minor investigative procedures
(including polyp removal etc). For real surgery (with cutting) you will
most likely have a breathing tube, or mask, with gas pumped into your lungs,
as well as an intravenous with something like propofil. I am not an
anesthesiologist (but I have talked to many before all my procedures and
surgeries). They are required to be on duty and talk to you (ie the
supervising MD), even though an anesthetist is all that is required to
administer the drug during simple procedures, like EGD's and colonoscopies.

I don't want to be redundant, so I have pasted below (between the dashed
lines) something I wrote in another thread a couple weeks ago, for your info
(I think its interesting - ie about the conscious sedation). How conscious
you are is obviously a function of how much of the drug they inject. As far
as I can tell by my personal experience, they now put you sleep with
propofil for EGD's and colonoscopies, at least in the county where I live in
Maryland.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wrote the two paragraphs below on 2/3/06 -

They used to do a thing called conscious sedation (my current gastro - old
timer - still does) and he injects "Versed" into my IV and that knocks me
out completely (you sure aren't conscious) and has a bigger hangover than
the propofil (plus he gives his patients 100 mg of Demerol to relax them
before the procedure even though he is going to knock you out with the
Versed - lol . He says the anesthesiologist is overkill and an added
expense (and another bill - I agree). Only the old time doctor's would be
interested in saving the patient money.

I used to have procedures in the 90's where you were semi conscious (EGD's,
colonoscopies) and no anesthesiologists or anesthetists were required (doc
did injection -
don't know what they used back then). But they have all gone to the
propofil today and you go to sleep (at least in Maryland).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pete

Gordon Burditt

2006-02-19 00:01:36 UTC

Post by Gordon Burditt
Is propofil described as "making you forget the pain rather than
not feel it in the first place"?

The description I got of the procedure said I would be conscious
(sort of) and following instructions (like shifting position) but
I probably wouldn't remember any of it afterwards. As I mentioned
earlier, it sounds much more like a date-rape drug (makes me
cooperative, messes up memory) than something intended to knock me
out or reduce pain. I did get put pretty deeply out but I'm not
sure that happened until after I got home - it did do a good job
of messing up my memory.

In the precarious position they had me, lying on one side balanced
on one arm and cutting off circulation, I sure wouldn't stay put
very long unconscious. I didn't see any obvious way they could tie
me into that position, either. The vague memory I have of being
told "you're done" and someone starting to wheel my bed out of the
room says I was still in the same position until I got pushed over
(either by the motion of the bed or by someone putting me flat
on my back) at that time.

Post by Pete
I don't want to be redundant, so I have pasted below (between the dashed
lines) something I wrote in another thread a couple weeks ago, for your info
(I think its interesting - ie about the conscious sedation). How conscious
you are is obviously a function of how much of the drug they inject. As far
as I can tell by my personal experience, they now put you sleep with
propofil for EGD's and colonoscopies, at least in the county where I live in
Maryland.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wrote the two paragraphs below on 2/3/06 -
They used to do a thing called conscious sedation (my current gastro - old
timer - still does) and he injects "Versed" into my IV and that knocks me
out completely (you sure aren't conscious) and has a bigger hangover than
the propofil (plus he gives his patients 100 mg of Demerol to relax them
before the procedure even though he is going to knock you out with the
Versed - lol . He says the anesthesiologist is overkill and an added
expense (and another bill - I agree). Only the old time doctor's would be
interested in saving the patient money.

I got separate bills for the doctor, the facility, and the lab (if
they found any polyps to take samples of, which they did). There was
no separate bill from the anesthesiologist, although that might
have been in the facility or doctor charges.

Post by Pete
I used to have procedures in the 90's where you were semi conscious (EGD's,
colonoscopies) and no anesthesiologists or anesthetists were required (doc
did injection -
don't know what they used back then).

I don't think anyone mentioned an anesthesiologist to me at any
point. That doesn't mean there wasn't one, under some other name
like "technician", or that I just didn't ask the right questions.

They set me up with an IV when they were getting me ready. I wasn't
supposed to start getting sleepy until later, when presumably they
put something in the IV. I might have had a sedative from the
beginning.

Post by Pete
But they have all gone to the
propofil today and you go to sleep (at least in Maryland).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gordon L. Burditt

Pete

2006-02-19 00:57:05 UTC

Post by Gordon Burditt
Is propofil described as "making you forget the pain rather than
not feel it in the first place"?

Gordon...I'm sure you had the so called "conscious sedation" since you
indicate below you didn't talk to an anesthesiologist, and did not get a
bill from an anesthesiologist. Your doc may have injected the "Versed" I
mentioned below (powerful stuff). If you stayed conscious they must have
not used too much, although you have severe reactions afterward like you
said. Call the doc's office and ask them what the name of the anesthesia
was they used.

Post by Gordon Burditt
In the precarious position they had me, lying on one side balanced
on one arm and cutting off circulation, I sure wouldn't stay put
very long unconscious. I didn't see any obvious way they could tie
me into that position, either. The vague memory I have of being
told "you're done" and someone starting to wheel my bed out of the
room says I was still in the same position until I got pushed over
(either by the motion of the bed or by someone putting me flat
on my back) at that time.

Post by Pete
I don't want to be redundant, so I have pasted below (between the
dashed lines) something I wrote in another thread a couple weeks
ago, for your info (I think its interesting - ie about the conscious
sedation). How conscious you are is obviously a function of how
much of the drug they inject. As far as I can tell by my personal
experience, they now put you sleep with propofil for EGD's and
colonoscopies, at least in the county where I live in Maryland.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wrote the two paragraphs below on 2/3/06 -
They used to do a thing called conscious sedation (my current gastro
- old timer - still does) and he injects "Versed" into my IV and
that knocks me out completely (you sure aren't conscious) and has a
bigger hangover than the propofil (plus he gives his patients 100 mg
of Demerol to relax them before the procedure even though he is
going to knock you out with the Versed - lol . He says the
anesthesiologist is overkill and an added expense (and another bill
- I agree). Only the old time doctor's would be interested in
saving the patient money.

Like I said above you probably did not have an anesthesiologist or you would
have talked to him (ie the MD on duty), even though an anesthetist probably
would have administered the drug. Its a silly game, the doc doing the
procedure can administer whatever drug they use for the so called "conscious
sedation", but an anestheologist is required to be on duty if you are to
receive propofil (even though an anesthetist would probably administer it),
and you are to become unconscious. Like I said when my gastro gives me the
dose of versed for my EGD's, it knocks me out worse than the propofil (so he
must be injecting a significant amount), and he calls it "conscious
sedation". But with either propofil or versed, I do not have the recovery
problems you do, which sound very serious.

Post by Pete
I used to have procedures in the 90's where you were semi conscious
(EGD's, colonoscopies) and no anesthesiologists or anesthetists were
required (doc did injection -
don't know what they used back then).

I don't think anyone mentioned an anesthesiologist to me at any
point. That doesn't mean there wasn't one, under some other name
like "technician", or that I just didn't ask the right questions.

Like I said, if you had an anesthesiologist you would have spoken to him and
you would have gotten a bill from him. Was this your first procedure like
this (with all the recovery problems you described).

Post by Gordon Burditt
They set me up with an IV when they were getting me ready. I wasn't
supposed to start getting sleepy until later, when presumably they
put something in the IV. I might have had a sedative from the
beginning.

Post by Pete
But they have all gone to the
propofil today and you go to sleep (at least in Maryland).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gordon L. Burditt

Gordon Burditt

2006-02-19 02:52:22 UTC

Post by Pete
Like I said above you probably did not have an anesthesiologist or you would
have talked to him (ie the MD on duty), even though an anesthetist probably
would have administered the drug. Its a silly game, the doc doing the
procedure can administer whatever drug they use for the so called "conscious
sedation", but an anestheologist is required to be on duty if you are to
receive propofil (even though an anesthetist would probably administer it),
and you are to become unconscious. Like I said when my gastro gives me the
dose of versed for my EGD's, it knocks me out worse than the propofil (so he
must be injecting a significant amount), and he calls it "conscious
sedation". But with either propofil or versed, I do not have the recovery
problems you do, which sound very serious.

Post by Pete
I used to have procedures in the 90's where you were semi conscious
(EGD's, colonoscopies) and no anesthesiologists or anesthetists were
required (doc did injection -
don't know what they used back then).

I don't think anyone mentioned an anesthesiologist to me at any
point. That doesn't mean there wasn't one, under some other name
like "technician", or that I just didn't ask the right questions.

I'm 54 now.
At 53 I had the colonoscopy with problems we've discussed.

At 52 I had a kidney stone. No anesthesia involved, I think I got
off easy on the pain (compared to what others describe, and even
compared to my own root canals), drove home the same day.

At 36 I had gum surgery which involved IV valium during the procedure.
Recovery took about 4 days (pain not gone though, and I was desperately
trying NOT to be conscious a lot of the time, but I could go back to work)
and I fell over at work the next week.

In my 30's I had various dental procedures like root canals with
only local anesthesia. No problems but pain.

Sometime in elementary school I had my tonsils out. I have no idea
whether there were problems with this. Pain was the biggest issue.

So local anesthesia seems to be OK, but the only two instances of
putting me to sleep that I can remember the results of caused problems.

Gordon L. Burditt

Pete

2006-02-19 18:57:13 UTC

Post by Gordon Burditt
I'm 54 now.
At 53 I had the colonoscopy with problems we've discussed.
At 52 I had a kidney stone. No anesthesia involved, I think I got
off easy on the pain (compared to what others describe, and even
compared to my own root canals), drove home the same day.
At 36 I had gum surgery which involved IV valium during the procedure.
Recovery took about 4 days (pain not gone though, and I was
desperately trying NOT to be conscious a lot of the time, but I could
go back to work) and I fell over at work the next week.
In my 30's I had various dental procedures like root canals with
only local anesthesia. No problems but pain.
Sometime in elementary school I had my tonsils out. I have no idea
whether there were problems with this. Pain was the biggest issue.
So local anesthesia seems to be OK, but the only two instances of
putting me to sleep that I can remember the results of caused
problems.
Gordon L. Burditt

Gordon...Aside from your two recovery problems with anesthesia, you sound
like you are a lot healthier than I am :-) . Good for you. Ask your doctor
what he gave you for the colonoscopy and discuss this with the
anesthesioligist (like Al said) the next time you have a procedure requiring
anesthesia. If it going to be "conscious sedation", and you will not have
an anesthesiologist, then discuss it with your doc who will be injecting you
(but chances are he is only used to using what he uses, and will not use
anything else). Good luck...Pete

George

2006-02-06 03:50:51 UTC

Post by Pete
Jerry...I see you and George have finally wandered in here (both at the
same time - interesting). I didn't think you IC sufferers cared too much
about BPH or prostatis :-) . Welcome...Pete

Hi Pete. I had prostatitis in 2004. Took quite a while to get it under
control, but I feel better now. Like I said below, the atarax has helped
my IC, but my prescription ran out, and I don't have insurance, so I can't
afford a doctor visit right now. Since I've gone off the atarax, I've
noticed an increase in bladder pain and burning in my urethra when I
urinate. It mostly went away when I was on the atarax. Hopefully, I will
able to find work soon, and get back to the doctor.

George

Post by All Things Mopar
Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

I need to ask my doctor about Atarax when I see him in a
couple weeks. I've been enduring DMSO treatments again, which
are quite painful to me. Worse, my doc wants me to hold the
stuff in my bladder for a minimum of 30 minutes, even though
clinical studies show that no more than 12-15 minutes are
necessary. He really wants 45 minutes, but I can't take the
pain.
I stopped taking Elavil and Elmiron as they had no noticeable
affect and were worsening my constipation problems. I had
another failed attempt at IC relief via hydrodistension last
fall, and my doc wants to scope me to see what happened. Well,
I already know it failed.
People keep careful diaries of what they're doing or what
they're eating which makes their IC get worse or better. I do
mine mentally (got a good memory! <grin>). I've not noticed
triggering more pain if I do it or less if I don't, /except/
for my IBS with constipation.
Anatomically, large and small intestines are on top the
bladder, particularly the sigmoid color on rectum. It took
quite a while to make the connection, but on the uphill side
of weeking constipation/loose stool cycles I get IC pain, and
when it "lets loose", I get pain.
Now, I'd /really/ like to fix my bowel problems, which have
grown worse in the last 4-6 years, and noticeably worse in the
last year. Besides extreme discomfort, hemmoroid bleeding, and
the IC, I also get uncontrollably nauseus which often makes it
impossible to eat. I never vomit, but feel like you do just
before you hurl.
There's a known link between IBS and IC but neither the gasto
or uro guys know exactly what it is. I'm been putting off
going to the University of Michigan Medical Center for an
IBS/nausea consult, but somehow I have to get the intestinal
fortitude to do it, along with the obligatory obnoxious
testing.
We all know our own bodies far better than any doctor does, so
I'm convinced that if I can fix the IBS, I'll also fix my IC.
And, I'll stop the weight loss slide I'm on, where I've lost
over 20 pounds in the last year. And, I was already skinny!

Pete

2006-02-06 05:46:04 UTC

Post by Pete
Jerry...I see you and George have finally wandered in here (both at
the same time - interesting). I didn't think you IC sufferers cared
too much about BPH or prostatis :-) . Welcome...Pete

Hi Pete. I had prostatitis in 2004. Took quite a while to get it
under control, but I feel better now. Like I said below, the atarax
has helped my IC, but my prescription ran out, and I don't have
insurance, so I can't afford a doctor visit right now. Since I've
gone off the atarax, I've noticed an increase in bladder pain and
burning in my urethra when I urinate. It mostly went away when I was
on the atarax. Hopefully, I will able to find work soon, and get back
to the doctor.

My best wishes to you George...Pete

Post by George
George

Post by All Things Mopar
Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

I need to ask my doctor about Atarax when I see him in a
couple weeks. I've been enduring DMSO treatments again, which
are quite painful to me. Worse, my doc wants me to hold the
stuff in my bladder for a minimum of 30 minutes, even though
clinical studies show that no more than 12-15 minutes are
necessary. He really wants 45 minutes, but I can't take the
pain.
I stopped taking Elavil and Elmiron as they had no noticeable
affect and were worsening my constipation problems. I had
another failed attempt at IC relief via hydrodistension last
fall, and my doc wants to scope me to see what happened. Well,
I already know it failed.
People keep careful diaries of what they're doing or what
they're eating which makes their IC get worse or better. I do
mine mentally (got a good memory! <grin>). I've not noticed
triggering more pain if I do it or less if I don't, /except/
for my IBS with constipation.
Anatomically, large and small intestines are on top the
bladder, particularly the sigmoid color on rectum. It took
quite a while to make the connection, but on the uphill side
of weeking constipation/loose stool cycles I get IC pain, and
when it "lets loose", I get pain.
Now, I'd /really/ like to fix my bowel problems, which have
grown worse in the last 4-6 years, and noticeably worse in the
last year. Besides extreme discomfort, hemmoroid bleeding, and
the IC, I also get uncontrollably nauseus which often makes it
impossible to eat. I never vomit, but feel like you do just
before you hurl.
There's a known link between IBS and IC but neither the gasto
or uro guys know exactly what it is. I'm been putting off
going to the University of Michigan Medical Center for an
IBS/nausea consult, but somehow I have to get the intestinal
fortitude to do it, along with the obligatory obnoxious
testing.
We all know our own bodies far better than any doctor does, so
I'm convinced that if I can fix the IBS, I'll also fix my IC.
And, I'll stop the weight loss slide I'm on, where I've lost
over 20 pounds in the last year. And, I was already skinny!

George

2006-02-07 03:21:59 UTC

Post by Pete
Jerry...I see you and George have finally wandered in here (both at
the same time - interesting). I didn't think you IC sufferers cared
too much about BPH or prostatis :-) . Welcome...Pete

Hi Pete. I had prostatitis in 2004. Took quite a while to get it
under control, but I feel better now. Like I said below, the atarax
has helped my IC, but my prescription ran out, and I don't have
insurance, so I can't afford a doctor visit right now. Since I've
gone off the atarax, I've noticed an increase in bladder pain and
burning in my urethra when I urinate. It mostly went away when I was
on the atarax. Hopefully, I will able to find work soon, and get back
to the doctor.

My best wishes to you George...Pete

Post by George
George

Thanks. I appreciate that.

George

All Things Mopar

2006-02-06 09:54:18 UTC

Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

Hi Pete. I had prostatitis in 2004. Took quite a while to
get it under control, but I feel better now. Like I said
below, the atarax has helped my IC, but my prescription ran
out, and I don't have insurance, so I can't afford a doctor
visit right now. Since I've gone off the atarax, I've
noticed an increase in bladder pain and burning in my
urethra when I urinate. It mostly went away when I was on
the atarax. Hopefully, I will able to find work soon, and
get back to the doctor.

George, you've been suffering with this much longer than I. I
certainly pray that you'll get relief sometime soon. And, I
hope you are able to go back to work. That'll help you stay
busy and maybe take your mind off your symptoms, as well as
ease you budget-based anxiety and get to a doctor again.

My health inexplicably got much worse about the time I retired
from Chrysler 4 years ago, and it is going downhill at an
accelerated rate. Mainly, my IBS constipation and nausea are
much worse, which I recently concluded is heavily contributing
to my IC, as I described earlier. Twice previously last year
after being scoped, my doctor prescribed Colace stool
softener, although I'd told him in the past that I already
takee the generic stuff, and about 5 time as much per day as
is usually recommended.

I asked him why he keeps prescribing it and he said that he
can see my descending color and rectum pushing in on the
bladder and assumed getting the shit out (literally) would
help. It does, but the cycle repeats endlessly once or maybe
twice a week - after my last major BM, I have a day, maybe two
of feeling semi-OK, then I start feeling bloated for a day,
then I feel "things moving around inside", then it's a feeling
of having a football in my intestines, which is about the time
the nausea starts. Eventually, after 5-9 days of this, I
finally need to go, and then I ride the porcelain pony off and
on for a couple of days, with resulting nausea and an IC
flare-up.

My third non-life threatening condition is joint pain, but
/not/ arthritis. It's a damn good thing as I cannot tolerate
NSAIDs. The last time my doctor tried, just 3 months on
Naproxin gave me a severe bleeding duodenal ulcer that /was/
life-threatening.

To control the joint pain, I take Norco and to control the IC
I take Vicodin. They're both hydrocodone and acetametaphine,
but the formulation by the competing phamacuetical firms use
different fillers and non-acting ingredients, so the effect is
different. Really curious thing, Norco 10-365mg helps my knees
and elbow but not the IC, while Vicodin 10-660mg helps my IC
but not my joints. The hydrocodone wrecks havoc with my
constipation, as you'd guess.

So, 3 conditions, 3 sets of drugs. And, every God Damn drug
causes a very unpleasant side-effect to the other 3
conditions. The constipation thingy is why I stopped the
Elavil and Elmiron for IC and stopped Librax for intestinal
cramping. As you know far better than I do, it /is/ possible
to have a non-life threatening condition(s) and be in a lot of
pain or discomfort anyway, and for an indefinite time span.

Good luck, George!

--
ATM, aka Jerry

George

2006-02-07 03:35:18 UTC

Post by All Things Mopar
Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

Hi Pete. I had prostatitis in 2004. Took quite a while to
get it under control, but I feel better now. Like I said
below, the atarax has helped my IC, but my prescription ran
out, and I don't have insurance, so I can't afford a doctor
visit right now. Since I've gone off the atarax, I've
noticed an increase in bladder pain and burning in my
urethra when I urinate. It mostly went away when I was on
the atarax. Hopefully, I will able to find work soon, and
get back to the doctor.

George, you've been suffering with this much longer than I. I
certainly pray that you'll get relief sometime soon. And, I
hope you are able to go back to work. That'll help you stay
busy and maybe take your mind off your symptoms, as well as
ease you budget-based anxiety and get to a doctor again.
My health inexplicably got much worse about the time I retired
from Chrysler 4 years ago, and it is going downhill at an
accelerated rate. Mainly, my IBS constipation and nausea are
much worse, which I recently concluded is heavily contributing
to my IC, as I described earlier. Twice previously last year
after being scoped, my doctor prescribed Colace stool
softener, although I'd told him in the past that I already
takee the generic stuff, and about 5 time as much per day as
is usually recommended.
I asked him why he keeps prescribing it and he said that he
can see my descending color and rectum pushing in on the
bladder and assumed getting the shit out (literally) would
help. It does, but the cycle repeats endlessly once or maybe
twice a week - after my last major BM, I have a day, maybe two
of feeling semi-OK, then I start feeling bloated for a day,
then I feel "things moving around inside", then it's a feeling
of having a football in my intestines, which is about the time
the nausea starts. Eventually, after 5-9 days of this, I
finally need to go, and then I ride the porcelain pony off and
on for a couple of days, with resulting nausea and an IC
flare-up.
My third non-life threatening condition is joint pain, but
/not/ arthritis. It's a damn good thing as I cannot tolerate
NSAIDs. The last time my doctor tried, just 3 months on
Naproxin gave me a severe bleeding duodenal ulcer that /was/
life-threatening.
To control the joint pain, I take Norco and to control the IC
I take Vicodin. They're both hydrocodone and acetametaphine,
but the formulation by the competing phamacuetical firms use
different fillers and non-acting ingredients, so the effect is
different. Really curious thing, Norco 10-365mg helps my knees
and elbow but not the IC, while Vicodin 10-660mg helps my IC
but not my joints. The hydrocodone wrecks havoc with my
constipation, as you'd guess.
So, 3 conditions, 3 sets of drugs. And, every God Damn drug
causes a very unpleasant side-effect to the other 3
conditions. The constipation thingy is why I stopped the
Elavil and Elmiron for IC and stopped Librax for intestinal
cramping. As you know far better than I do, it /is/ possible
to have a non-life threatening condition(s) and be in a lot of
pain or discomfort anyway, and for an indefinite time span.
Good luck, George!
--
ATM, aka Jerry

Hi Jerry. Yes I am all aware of the agony non-life-threatening pain. On
another note, I also have a hiatal hernia. My family doctor prescribed
nexium for the condition back in 2004. I was on the medication for about 9
months. In November of that year I developed a really bad case of
infectious colitis. I have to say that that was about the worst illness
I've ever experienced. Because I am unemployed, I stopped taking that
medication after the prescription ran out, and started using standard
antacids when I need it, which helps. About a month ago, I learned that
the FDA has warned that proton pump inhibitors like nexium shuts down
natural defenses against certain bacterial infections of the intestines and
colon, and can lead to severe infectious colitis. Can you believe it???
For the life of me I could never understand how I got such a bad infection.
NOW I KNOW! Bastards! Anyway, I survived. Others were not so lucky. I
understand that a number of nursing home patients died from it.

George

All Things Mopar

2006-02-07 11:58:46 UTC

Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

Post by George
Hi Jerry. Yes I am all aware of the agony
non-life-threatening pain. On another note, I also have a
hiatal hernia. My family doctor prescribed nexium for the
condition back in 2004. I was on the medication for about
9 months. In November of that year I developed a really
bad case of infectious colitis. I have to say that that
was about the worst illness I've ever experienced. Because
I am unemployed, I stopped taking that medication after the
prescription ran out, and started using standard antacids
when I need it, which helps. About a month ago, I learned
that the FDA has warned that proton pump inhibitors like
nexium shuts down natural defenses against certain
bacterial infections of the intestines and colon, and can
lead to severe infectious colitis. Can you believe it???
For the life of me I could never understand how I got such
a bad infection. NOW I KNOW! Bastards! Anyway, I
survived. Others were not so lucky. I understand that a
number of nursing home patients died from it.

Egad! Glad you got through that with your skin, literally,
George!

The really sad thing about modern medicine, is that in the
rush to get new treatments to market to help people - and help
pharmaceutical firms make profits - not nearly enough is
understood about side effects. Worse, drug-to-drug-to-drrug...
interaction side-effects aren't studied nor are the effects of
drugs for one condition aggravating another studied. There are
literally /no/ controlled clinical trials for that sort of
thing.

So, in my example, even though my gastro and uro guys know
that IBS and IC are related, and both are good doctors,
neither can articulate exactly what is happening. And,
naturally, I can't find anything by Googling.

Then, there's the opposite problem, something like Vioxx. A
hundred or so people die, /maybe/ from Vioxx, and the drug is
taken off the market now denying pain relief needed by people
who are not at risk, or are willing to take the risk. The 14th
Amendment is now being perverted by the courts into saying
that if you're too dumb to prevent harm to yourself, the
government will! That's fine, they should keep an eye on
things, but God Damn it, I should have control over my own
medical life,but I really don't.

Good luck to you, George. And, to Pete. And, to me.

--
ATM, aka Jerry

George

2006-02-09 06:39:22 UTC

Post by All Things Mopar
Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

Well, part of the problem is mindset. Effects are effects. There are no
"side-effects". They should study all the effects, and treat them as
effects of the medication, whether beneficial or detrimental. And as you
say, the other is simple greed. So next time you see a Nexium commercial,
and see all the glorious claims they make about it, imagine those handful
per thousand white-knuckled, clutching at a toilet seat crapping their
damned guts out. All I can do is shake my head in disgust. Sadly, it does
work for what it was intended (i.e., it helps with the hernia and reflux).
But if you have to die from another ailment caused by the medicine intended
to cure the ails for which you are taking it, what's the point? I'm simply
tired of doctors using me for a guinnea pig, or worse, racking up seaside
vacation points from the pharmaceutical industry. With this new medicare
drug program, I can imagine it will only get worse. You know, it's almost
as bad as the Spanish inquisition, and nearly as deadly.

Post by All Things Mopar
So, in my example, even though my gastro and uro guys know
that IBS and IC are related, and both are good doctors,
neither can articulate exactly what is happening. And,
naturally, I can't find anything by Googling.
Then, there's the opposite problem, something like Vioxx. A
hundred or so people die, /maybe/ from Vioxx, and the drug is
taken off the market now denying pain relief needed by people
who are not at risk, or are willing to take the risk. The 14th
Amendment is now being perverted by the courts into saying
that if you're too dumb to prevent harm to yourself, the
government will! That's fine, they should keep an eye on
things, but God Damn it, I should have control over my own
medical life,but I really don't.

Yeah, I was given celebrex for tendinitis in my elbow at about that time.
I took two pills, and then the next day they announced that it had similar
problems that vioxx had and were taking it off the market. I stopped
taking them and it took about 3 months for the tendonitis to clear up.
Ouch!

I had a ear infection about 6 weeks ago, and one of the doctors in my
family doctors' office treated me using a very expensive antibiotic. When
he handed me the presciption, I looked at it, and didn't recognize the name
(can't recall what it was called right off), and reminded him than I don't
have insurance and am unemployed, so I needed something that wasn't going
to cost me a lot. His answer was that it was very effective, and
reasonably priced. When I went to the pharmacist, he told me that five
pills would cost me $125. I balked, of course, and asked him to call the
doctor for a different prescription. The doctor refused and said it was
the medicine I needed. Well, the pharmacist was very kind and gave me a
discount (he knocked of about $25 off the cost - he doesn't set the price,
but I still wonder how whe was able to give me such a discount), so I went
home and took them. The medicine was very effective for me, but imagine my
chagrin when I learned about a week later that the FDA was taking that drug
off the market because it had killed three people, destroyed the liver in
two others who had had to have liver transplants, and gave another
hepatitis! I never go to that doctor because he's done crap like this to
me before, and is an arogant SOB, but there was no one else available that
day. Needless to say, I called the office and gave them an ear full!
Never again!

Post by All Things Mopar
Good luck to you, George. And, to Pete. And, to me.
--
ATM, aka Jerry

Thanks, Jerry. Same to you.

All Things Mopar

2006-02-09 12:19:30 UTC

Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

Post by All Things Mopar
The really sad thing about modern medicine, is that in the
rush to get new treatments to market to help people - and
help pharmaceutical firms make profits - not nearly enough
is understood about side effects. Worse,
drug-to-drug-to-drrug... interaction side-effects aren't
studied nor are the effects of drugs for one condition
aggravating another studied. There are literally /no/
controlled clinical trials for that sort of thing.

Just semantics, George. "side effect" simply means "not a
planned effect". Naturally, they are all "effects" but people
and doctors have a different view. And, there are positive as
well as negative side effects. My point was that no one, and I
mean no one, has the faintest God Damn clue what happens when
somebody takes 6, 12, 30 prescription meds a day along with
who knows what OTC drugs, what herbs and supplements, etc. It
took my gastroenterologist a year, and 3 tries on my part, to
figure out that some of my IC stuff was messing up my IBS and
vice versa, and the hydrocodone for joint pain was messing
both up. But, he was basing all this on a quick read of the
list of meds I take daily, and not looking in a PDR for the
good and bad effects of each of my meds, and total effect on
my mind and body in combination.

Post by George
And as you say, the
other is simple greed. So next time you see a Nexium
commercial, and see all the glorious claims they make about
it, imagine those handful per thousand white-knuckled,
clutching at a toilet seat crapping their damned guts out.
All I can do is shake my head in disgust. Sadly, it does
work for what it was intended (i.e., it helps with the
hernia and reflux). But if you have to die from another
ailment caused by the medicine intended to cure the ails
for which you are taking it, what's the point? I'm simply
tired of doctors using me for a guinnea pig, or worse,
racking up seaside vacation points from the pharmaceutical
industry. With this new medicare drug program, I can
imagine it will only get worse. You know, it's almost as
bad as the Spanish inquisition, and nearly as deadly.

Post by All Things Mopar
So, in my example, even though my gastro and uro guys know
that IBS and IC are related, and both are good doctors,
neither can articulate exactly what is happening. And,
naturally, I can't find anything by Googling.
Then, there's the opposite problem, something like Vioxx.
A hundred or so people die, /maybe/ from Vioxx, and the
drug is taken off the market now denying pain relief
needed by people who are not at risk, or are willing to
take the risk. The 14th Amendment is now being perverted
by the courts into saying that if you're too dumb to
prevent harm to yourself, the government will! That's
fine, they should keep an eye on things, but God Damn it,
I should have control over my own medical life,but I
really don't.

Yeah, I was given celebrex for tendinitis in my elbow at
about that time. I took two pills, and then the next day
they announced that it had similar problems that vioxx had
and were taking it off the market. I stopped taking them
and it took about 3 months for the tendonitis to clear up.
Ouch!
I had a ear infection about 6 weeks ago, and one of the
doctors in my family doctors' office treated me using a
very expensive antibiotic. When he handed me the
presciption, I looked at it, and didn't recognize the name
(can't recall what it was called right off), and reminded
him than I don't have insurance and am unemployed, so I
needed something that wasn't going to cost me a lot. His
answer was that it was very effective, and reasonably
priced. When I went to the pharmacist, he told me that
five pills would cost me $125. I balked, of course, and
asked him to call the doctor for a different prescription.
The doctor refused and said it was the medicine I needed.
Well, the pharmacist was very kind and gave me a discount
(he knocked of about $25 off the cost - he doesn't set the
price, but I still wonder how whe was able to give me such
a discount), so I went home and took them. The medicine was
very effective for me, but imagine my chagrin when I
learned about a week later that the FDA was taking that
drug off the market because it had killed three people,
destroyed the liver in two others who had had to have liver
transplants, and gave another hepatitis! I never go to
that doctor because he's done crap like this to me before,
and is an arogant SOB, but there was no one else available
that day. Needless to say, I called the office and gave
them an ear full! Never again!

Post by All Things Mopar
Good luck to you, George. And, to Pete. And, to me.
--
ATM, aka Jerry

Thanks, Jerry. Same to you.

--
ATM, aka Jerry

Pete

2006-02-09 20:04:21 UTC

Post by George
I had a ear infection about 6 weeks ago, and one of the doctors in my
family doctors' office treated me using a very expensive antibiotic. When
he handed me the presciption, I looked at it, and didn't
recognize the name (can't recall what it was called right off), and
reminded him than I don't have insurance and am unemployed, so I
needed something that wasn't going to cost me a lot. His answer was
that it was very effective, and reasonably priced. When I went to
the pharmacist, he told me that five pills would cost me $125. I
balked, of course, and asked him to call the doctor for a different
prescription. The doctor refused and said it was the medicine I
needed. Well, the pharmacist was very kind and gave me a discount
(he knocked of about $25 off the cost - he doesn't set the price, but
I still wonder how whe was able to give me such a discount), so I
went home and took them. The medicine was very effective for me, but
imagine my chagrin when I learned about a week later that the FDA was
taking that drug off the market because it had killed three people,
destroyed the liver in two others who had had to have liver
transplants, and gave another hepatitis! I never go to that doctor
because he's done crap like this to me before, and is an arogant SOB,
but there was no one else available that day. Needless to say, I
called the office and gave them an ear full! Never again!

George...what an asshole that doctor was. You should have just told him you
wanted a generic. Boy that prima donna bastard really pisses me off, and he
shouldn't be praciticing medicine (for god's sake he's just a damn gen
practioner and not even an ENT). What is the name of the drug, I am very
curious...Pete

George

2006-02-10 02:07:49 UTC

Post by George
I had a ear infection about 6 weeks ago, and one of the doctors in my
family doctors' office treated me using a very expensive antibiotic.
When he handed me the presciption, I looked at it, and didn't
recognize the name (can't recall what it was called right off), and
reminded him than I don't have insurance and am unemployed, so I
needed something that wasn't going to cost me a lot. His answer was
that it was very effective, and reasonably priced. When I went to
the pharmacist, he told me that five pills would cost me $125. I
balked, of course, and asked him to call the doctor for a different
prescription. The doctor refused and said it was the medicine I
needed. Well, the pharmacist was very kind and gave me a discount
(he knocked of about $25 off the cost - he doesn't set the price, but
I still wonder how whe was able to give me such a discount), so I
went home and took them. The medicine was very effective for me, but
imagine my chagrin when I learned about a week later that the FDA was
taking that drug off the market because it had killed three people,
destroyed the liver in two others who had had to have liver
transplants, and gave another hepatitis! I never go to that doctor
because he's done crap like this to me before, and is an arogant SOB,
but there was no one else available that day. Needless to say, I
called the office and gave them an ear full! Never again!

George...what an asshole that doctor was. You should have just told him
you wanted a generic. Boy that prima donna bastard really pisses me off,
and he shouldn't be praciticing medicine (for god's sake he's just a damn
gen practioner and not even an ENT). What is the name of the drug, I am
very curious...Pete

I suspect he has his hand in the pharmaceutical kitty. he antibiotic was
caused Ketec. Here is an article I found about it. It looks like I was
wrong about the specifics on the fatalities and the illnesses it caused,
but not about the fact that people died and/or got sick.

George

http://lungdiseases.about.com/b/a/238782.htm

Derek F

2006-02-07 19:38:19 UTC

Post by All Things Mopar
Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

Hi Pete. I had prostatitis in 2004. Took quite a while to
get it under control, but I feel better now. Like I said
below, the atarax has helped my IC, but my prescription ran
out, and I don't have insurance, so I can't afford a doctor
visit right now. Since I've gone off the atarax, I've
noticed an increase in bladder pain and burning in my
urethra when I urinate. It mostly went away when I was on
the atarax. Hopefully, I will able to find work soon, and
get back to the doctor.

George, you've been suffering with this much longer than I. I
certainly pray that you'll get relief sometime soon. And, I
hope you are able to go back to work. That'll help you stay
busy and maybe take your mind off your symptoms, as well as
ease you budget-based anxiety and get to a doctor again.
My health inexplicably got much worse about the time I retired
from Chrysler 4 years ago, and it is going downhill at an
accelerated rate. Mainly, my IBS constipation and nausea are
much worse, which I recently concluded is heavily contributing
to my IC, as I described earlier. Twice previously last year
after being scoped, my doctor prescribed Colace stool
softener, although I'd told him in the past that I already
takee the generic stuff, and about 5 time as much per day as
is usually recommended.
I asked him why he keeps prescribing it and he said that he
can see my descending color and rectum pushing in on the
bladder and assumed getting the shit out (literally) would
help. It does, but the cycle repeats endlessly once or maybe
twice a week - after my last major BM, I have a day, maybe two
of feeling semi-OK, then I start feeling bloated for a day,
then I feel "things moving around inside", then it's a feeling
of having a football in my intestines, which is about the time
the nausea starts. Eventually, after 5-9 days of this, I
finally need to go, and then I ride the porcelain pony off and
on for a couple of days, with resulting nausea and an IC
flare-up.
My third non-life threatening condition is joint pain, but
/not/ arthritis. It's a damn good thing as I cannot tolerate
NSAIDs. The last time my doctor tried, just 3 months on
Naproxin gave me a severe bleeding duodenal ulcer that /was/
life-threatening.
To control the joint pain, I take Norco and to control the IC
I take Vicodin. They're both hydrocodone and acetametaphine,
but the formulation by the competing phamacuetical firms use
different fillers and non-acting ingredients, so the effect is
different. Really curious thing, Norco 10-365mg helps my knees
and elbow but not the IC, while Vicodin 10-660mg helps my IC
but not my joints. The hydrocodone wrecks havoc with my
constipation, as you'd guess.
So, 3 conditions, 3 sets of drugs. And, every God Damn drug
causes a very unpleasant side-effect to the other 3
conditions. The constipation thingy is why I stopped the
Elavil and Elmiron for IC and stopped Librax for intestinal
cramping. As you know far better than I do, it /is/ possible
to have a non-life threatening condition(s) and be in a lot of
pain or discomfort anyway, and for an indefinite time span.
Good luck, George!
--
ATM, aka Jerry

Hi Jerry. Yes I am all aware of the agony non-life-threatening pain. On
another note, I also have a hiatal hernia. My family doctor prescribed
nexium for the condition back in 2004. I was on the medication for about
9 months. In November of that year I developed a really bad case of
infectious colitis. I have to say that that was about the worst illness
I've ever experienced. Because I am unemployed, I stopped taking that
medication after the prescription ran out, and started using standard
antacids when I need it, which helps. About a month ago, I learned that
the FDA has warned that proton pump inhibitors like nexium shuts down
natural defenses against certain bacterial infections of the intestines
and colon, and can lead to severe infectious colitis. Can you believe
it??? For the life of me I could never understand how I got such a bad
infection. NOW I KNOW! Bastards! Anyway, I survived. Others were not so
lucky. I understand that a number of nursing home patients died from it.
George

The fact that is that you are no longer producing the acid that will deal
with bugs that cause food poisoning and the like. Like you I have Haital
Hernia and find that Nexium is the PPI that suits me best. I had something
akin to IBS three years ago but that was defiantly due to the antibiotics
rather than the PPI when I had triple therapy for Helicobacter pylori. The
pain from that lasted for about a year. My doctor also takes a PPI and says
that when he goes abroad to less hygienic countries he stops taking it as he
needs the protection of acid then. During that time he takes liquid Gaviscon
to help his reflux. Do you know that another issue from lack of stomach acid
is that polyps often form in the stomach and of course Nexium can cause lack
of sexual desire in both men and women :-)
Derek.

Pete

2006-02-07 20:05:37 UTC

Post by Derek F
The fact that is that you are no longer producing the acid that will
deal with bugs that cause food poisoning and the like. Like you I
have Haital Hernia and find that Nexium is the PPI that suits me
best. I had something akin to IBS three years ago but that was
defiantly due to the antibiotics rather than the PPI when I had
triple therapy for Helicobacter pylori. The pain from that lasted for
about a year. My doctor also takes a PPI and says that when he goes
abroad to less hygienic countries he stops taking it as he needs the
protection of acid then. During that time he takes liquid Gaviscon to
help his reflux. Do you know that another issue from lack of stomach
acid is that polyps often form in the stomach and of course Nexium
can cause lack of sexual desire in both men and women :-) Derek.

Derek...I was typing my post just as you were sending this. Make sure to
read it (2:50pm). :-) ...Pete

Derek F

2006-02-07 23:07:43 UTC

Derek...I was typing my post just as you were sending this. Make sure to
read it (2:50pm). :-) ...Pete

I guess you know about the NG alt.support.heartburn where an excellent
doctor very often answers questions and gives advice.
I have spoken to a couple of people recently who had partial fundoplication.
Both were very pleased with the procure and can BURP ! Most doctors I have
spoken to make the remark about "Fancy never being able to burp again" I am
beginning to think that not burping might be a better option than chest
pain/pressure caused by what is now non acid reflux, (thanks to Nexium)
very dry throat and airways during the night and the possibility of polyps.
Having got rid of my prostate I might as well get rid of another problem.
Derek.

Pete

2006-02-08 00:18:01 UTC

Post by Derek F
The fact that is that you are no longer producing the acid that will
deal with bugs that cause food poisoning and the like. Like you I
have Haital Hernia and find that Nexium is the PPI that suits me
best. I had something akin to IBS three years ago but that was
defiantly due to the antibiotics rather than the PPI when I had
triple therapy for Helicobacter pylori. The pain from that lasted
for about a year. My doctor also takes a PPI and says that when he
goes abroad to less hygienic countries he stops taking it as he
needs the protection of acid then. During that time he takes liquid
Gaviscon to help his reflux. Do you know that another issue from
lack of stomach acid is that polyps often form in the stomach and
of course Nexium can cause lack of sexual desire in both men and
women :-) Derek.

Derek...I was typing my post just as you were sending this. Make
sure to read it (2:50pm). :-) ...Pete

I guess you know about the NG alt.support.heartburn where an excellent
doctor very often answers questions and gives advice.
I have spoken to a couple of people recently who had partial
fundoplication. Both were very pleased with the procure and can BURP
! Most doctors I have spoken to make the remark about "Fancy never
being able to burp again" I am beginning to think that not burping
might be a better option than chest pain/pressure caused by what is
now non acid reflux, (thanks to Nexium) very dry throat and airways
during the night and the possibility of polyps. Having got rid of my
prostate I might as well get rid of another problem. Derek.

Thanks Derek...I never bothered with the site, but will check it. I have
too many health problems and don't have anyone to help me and I was told I
was not a candidate for fundo anyway (i.e. my LES is okay - but other
gastros said I had a minor hiatel hernia - hell if there isn't something
wrong down there, I wouldn't have GERD). Anyway they don't do fundos where
I live - would have to go to Baltimore, and I have been there 3 times in my
life with nothing to show for it. I have had about a dozen EGD's in my life
so I know a little about gastro stuff.

I will probably end up with 200 polyps if I keep taking PPI's. I have been
to too many doc's in my life like I have said since I have been posting
here. Went to Baltimore for another opinion from gastro in 2004, and it was
a joke (long story - never saw him again - he recommended a 24 hour ph from
a gastro at the center for that stuff, and ended up with the worst
bronchitis of my life from the tube - my local gastro didn't even know how
to read the 24 hour ph report (it's a simple x/y graph relationship that I
could easily figure out), when I tried to query him on it, and he didn't
even know it was forwarded to him and had to go thumbing through his chart
to find it. You guys must have better luck than me with doctors, plus you
all have your wives and family for support and transportation to procedures.
I'm telling you there are very few doctor's as good as Dr. Sancha. I don't
like them.

I just loaded the heartburn ng you mentioned. I see Howard Mcollister is in
there. He also frequents the sci.med ng. Do you know if he is a general
surgeon. I assume so, I asked him once a long time ago in the sci.med
group, and he never answered me.

I kow that you know there are no guarantees in surgery. I believe PVP's are
simple compared to hiatel hernia surgery and fundo's. Messing around near
the vagus nerve sounds scary at best, if you have the surgery, and you can't
swallow or have difficulty swallowing afterward, you will be screwed. I
would think about it. Have you had a 24 hour ph, and do your gastro's say
you may be a candidate for a fundo. I thought they usually don't do those
procedures unless the PPI's stop working, although I hear what you said
about the gas pains and these polyps are also scary...Pete

Derek F

2006-02-08 18:45:30 UTC

Post by Derek F
The fact that is that you are no longer producing the acid that will
deal with bugs that cause food poisoning and the like. Like you I
have Haital Hernia and find that Nexium is the PPI that suits me
best. I had something akin to IBS three years ago but that was
defiantly due to the antibiotics rather than the PPI when I had
triple therapy for Helicobacter pylori. The pain from that lasted
for about a year. My doctor also takes a PPI and says that when he
goes abroad to less hygienic countries he stops taking it as he
needs the protection of acid then. During that time he takes liquid
Gaviscon to help his reflux. Do you know that another issue from
lack of stomach acid is that polyps often form in the stomach and
of course Nexium can cause lack of sexual desire in both men and
women :-) Derek.

Derek...I was typing my post just as you were sending this. Make
sure to read it (2:50pm). :-) ...Pete

I guess you know about the NG alt.support.heartburn where an excellent
doctor very often answers questions and gives advice.
I have spoken to a couple of people recently who had partial
fundoplication. Both were very pleased with the procure and can BURP
! Most doctors I have spoken to make the remark about "Fancy never
being able to burp again" I am beginning to think that not burping
might be a better option than chest pain/pressure caused by what is
now non acid reflux, (thanks to Nexium) very dry throat and airways
during the night and the possibility of polyps. Having got rid of my
prostate I might as well get rid of another problem. Derek.

Thanks Derek...I never bothered with the site, but will check it. I have
too many health problems and don't have anyone to help me and I was told I
was not a candidate for fundo anyway (i.e. my LES is okay - but other
gastros said I had a minor hiatel hernia - hell if there isn't something
wrong down there, I wouldn't have GERD). Anyway they don't do fundos
where I live - would have to go to Baltimore, and I have been there 3
times in my life with nothing to show for it. I have had about a dozen
EGD's in my life so I know a little about gastro stuff.
I will probably end up with 200 polyps if I keep taking PPI's. I have
been to too many doc's in my life like I have said since I have been
posting here. Went to Baltimore for another opinion from gastro in 2004,
and it was a joke (long story - never saw him again - he recommended a 24
hour ph from a gastro at the center for that stuff, and ended up with the
worst bronchitis of my life from the tube - my local gastro didn't even
know how to read the 24 hour ph report (it's a simple x/y graph
relationship that I could easily figure out), when I tried to query him on
it, and he didn't even know it was forwarded to him and had to go thumbing
through his chart to find it. You guys must have better luck than me with
doctors, plus you all have your wives and family for support and
transportation to procedures. I'm telling you there are very few doctor's
as good as Dr. Sancha. I don't like them.
I just loaded the heartburn ng you mentioned. I see Howard Mcollister is
in there. He also frequents the sci.med ng. Do you know if he is a
general surgeon. I assume so, I asked him once a long time ago in the
sci.med group, and he never answered me.
I kow that you know there are no guarantees in surgery. I believe PVP's
are simple compared to hiatel hernia surgery and fundo's. Messing around
near the vagus nerve sounds scary at best, if you have the surgery, and
you can't swallow or have difficulty swallowing afterward, you will be
screwed. I would think about it. Have you had a 24 hour ph, and do your
gastro's say you may be a candidate for a fundo. I thought they usually
don't do those procedures unless the PPI's stop working, although I hear
what you said about the gas pains and these polyps are also scary...Pete

I can understand that you don't want to go to Baltimore :-) On my many
visits to America it was the only city that I disliked.
Derek.

George

2006-02-09 06:51:23 UTC

Post by Derek F
The fact that is that you are no longer producing the acid that will
deal with bugs that cause food poisoning and the like. Like you I
have Haital Hernia and find that Nexium is the PPI that suits me
best. I had something akin to IBS three years ago but that was
defiantly due to the antibiotics rather than the PPI when I had
triple therapy for Helicobacter pylori. The pain from that lasted
for about a year. My doctor also takes a PPI and says that when he
goes abroad to less hygienic countries he stops taking it as he
needs the protection of acid then. During that time he takes liquid
Gaviscon to help his reflux. Do you know that another issue from
lack of stomach acid is that polyps often form in the stomach and
of course Nexium can cause lack of sexual desire in both men and
women :-) Derek.

Derek...I was typing my post just as you were sending this. Make
sure to read it (2:50pm). :-) ...Pete

I guess you know about the NG alt.support.heartburn where an excellent
doctor very often answers questions and gives advice.
I have spoken to a couple of people recently who had partial
fundoplication. Both were very pleased with the procure and can BURP
! Most doctors I have spoken to make the remark about "Fancy never
being able to burp again" I am beginning to think that not burping
might be a better option than chest pain/pressure caused by what is
now non acid reflux, (thanks to Nexium) very dry throat and airways
during the night and the possibility of polyps. Having got rid of my
prostate I might as well get rid of another problem. Derek.

Thanks Derek...I never bothered with the site, but will check it. I
have too many health problems and don't have anyone to help me and I was
told I was not a candidate for fundo anyway (i.e. my LES is okay - but
other gastros said I had a minor hiatel hernia - hell if there isn't
something wrong down there, I wouldn't have GERD). Anyway they don't do
fundos where I live - would have to go to Baltimore, and I have been
there 3 times in my life with nothing to show for it. I have had about
a dozen EGD's in my life so I know a little about gastro stuff.
I will probably end up with 200 polyps if I keep taking PPI's. I have
been to too many doc's in my life like I have said since I have been
posting here. Went to Baltimore for another opinion from gastro in
2004, and it was a joke (long story - never saw him again - he
recommended a 24 hour ph from a gastro at the center for that stuff, and
ended up with the worst bronchitis of my life from the tube - my local
gastro didn't even know how to read the 24 hour ph report (it's a simple
x/y graph relationship that I could easily figure out), when I tried to
query him on it, and he didn't even know it was forwarded to him and had
to go thumbing through his chart to find it. You guys must have better
luck than me with doctors, plus you all have your wives and family for
support and transportation to procedures. I'm telling you there are very
few doctor's as good as Dr. Sancha. I don't like them.
I just loaded the heartburn ng you mentioned. I see Howard Mcollister
is in there. He also frequents the sci.med ng. Do you know if he is a
general surgeon. I assume so, I asked him once a long time ago in the
sci.med group, and he never answered me.
I kow that you know there are no guarantees in surgery. I believe PVP's
are simple compared to hiatel hernia surgery and fundo's. Messing
around near the vagus nerve sounds scary at best, if you have the
surgery, and you can't swallow or have difficulty swallowing afterward,
you will be screwed. I would think about it. Have you had a 24 hour
ph, and do your gastro's say you may be a candidate for a fundo. I
thought they usually don't do those procedures unless the PPI's stop
working, although I hear what you said about the gas pains and these
polyps are also scary...Pete

I can understand that you don't want to go to Baltimore :-) On my many
visits to America it was the only city that I disliked.
Derek.

lol

George(in derby city>

George

2006-02-09 06:47:34 UTC

Derek...I was typing my post just as you were sending this. Make sure
to read it (2:50pm). :-) ...Pete

I guess you know about the NG alt.support.heartburn where an excellent
doctor very often answers questions and gives advice.
I have spoken to a couple of people recently who had partial
fundoplication. Both were very pleased with the procure and can BURP !
Most doctors I have spoken to make the remark about "Fancy never being
able to burp again" I am beginning to think that not burping might be a
better option than chest pain/pressure caused by what is now non acid
reflux, (thanks to Nexium) very dry throat and airways during the night
and the possibility of polyps. Having got rid of my prostate I might as
well get rid of another problem.
Derek.

Hi Derek. Since I took myself off the Nexium, and have basically treated
myself by watching my diet very carefully (which I was trying to do anyway
because of my IC), not laying down immediately after eating, and taking an
mild OTC antacid before, and sometimes after I eat,and only when I feel
that it is going to flare up on me. I still get reflux and chest pain on
ocassion, but I think I have it mostly under control. I'll never take a
pill like Nexium ever again. At least, not if I can help it.

George

George

2006-02-09 06:42:27 UTC

Post by All Things Mopar
Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

Hi Pete. I had prostatitis in 2004. Took quite a while to
get it under control, but I feel better now. Like I said
below, the atarax has helped my IC, but my prescription ran
out, and I don't have insurance, so I can't afford a doctor
visit right now. Since I've gone off the atarax, I've
noticed an increase in bladder pain and burning in my
urethra when I urinate. It mostly went away when I was on
the atarax. Hopefully, I will able to find work soon, and
get back to the doctor.

George, you've been suffering with this much longer than I. I
certainly pray that you'll get relief sometime soon. And, I
hope you are able to go back to work. That'll help you stay
busy and maybe take your mind off your symptoms, as well as
ease you budget-based anxiety and get to a doctor again.
My health inexplicably got much worse about the time I retired
from Chrysler 4 years ago, and it is going downhill at an
accelerated rate. Mainly, my IBS constipation and nausea are
much worse, which I recently concluded is heavily contributing
to my IC, as I described earlier. Twice previously last year
after being scoped, my doctor prescribed Colace stool
softener, although I'd told him in the past that I already
takee the generic stuff, and about 5 time as much per day as
is usually recommended.
I asked him why he keeps prescribing it and he said that he
can see my descending color and rectum pushing in on the
bladder and assumed getting the shit out (literally) would
help. It does, but the cycle repeats endlessly once or maybe
twice a week - after my last major BM, I have a day, maybe two
of feeling semi-OK, then I start feeling bloated for a day,
then I feel "things moving around inside", then it's a feeling
of having a football in my intestines, which is about the time
the nausea starts. Eventually, after 5-9 days of this, I
finally need to go, and then I ride the porcelain pony off and
on for a couple of days, with resulting nausea and an IC
flare-up.
My third non-life threatening condition is joint pain, but
/not/ arthritis. It's a damn good thing as I cannot tolerate
NSAIDs. The last time my doctor tried, just 3 months on
Naproxin gave me a severe bleeding duodenal ulcer that /was/
life-threatening.
To control the joint pain, I take Norco and to control the IC
I take Vicodin. They're both hydrocodone and acetametaphine,
but the formulation by the competing phamacuetical firms use
different fillers and non-acting ingredients, so the effect is
different. Really curious thing, Norco 10-365mg helps my knees
and elbow but not the IC, while Vicodin 10-660mg helps my IC
but not my joints. The hydrocodone wrecks havoc with my
constipation, as you'd guess.
So, 3 conditions, 3 sets of drugs. And, every God Damn drug
causes a very unpleasant side-effect to the other 3
conditions. The constipation thingy is why I stopped the
Elavil and Elmiron for IC and stopped Librax for intestinal
cramping. As you know far better than I do, it /is/ possible
to have a non-life threatening condition(s) and be in a lot of
pain or discomfort anyway, and for an indefinite time span.
Good luck, George!
--
ATM, aka Jerry

Hi Jerry. Yes I am all aware of the agony non-life-threatening pain.
On another note, I also have a hiatal hernia. My family doctor
prescribed nexium for the condition back in 2004. I was on the
medication for about 9 months. In November of that year I developed a
really bad case of infectious colitis. I have to say that that was
about the worst illness I've ever experienced. Because I am unemployed,
I stopped taking that medication after the prescription ran out, and
started using standard antacids when I need it, which helps. About a
month ago, I learned that the FDA has warned that proton pump inhibitors
like nexium shuts down natural defenses against certain bacterial
infections of the intestines and colon, and can lead to severe
infectious colitis. Can you believe it??? For the life of me I could
never understand how I got such a bad infection. NOW I KNOW! Bastards!
Anyway, I survived. Others were not so lucky. I understand that a
number of nursing home patients died from it.
George

The fact that is that you are no longer producing the acid that will deal
with bugs that cause food poisoning and the like. Like you I have Haital
Hernia and find that Nexium is the PPI that suits me best. I had
something akin to IBS three years ago but that was defiantly due to the
antibiotics rather than the PPI when I had triple therapy for
Helicobacter pylori. The pain from that lasted for about a year. My
doctor also takes a PPI and says that when he goes abroad to less
hygienic countries he stops taking it as he needs the protection of acid
then. During that time he takes liquid Gaviscon to help his reflux. Do
you know that another issue from lack of stomach acid is that polyps
often form in the stomach and of course Nexium can cause lack of sexual
desire in both men and women :-)
Derek.

Yeah, I'm aware of what the medicine does. I didn't know at the time that
shutting down the acid production would cause me to get infectious colitis.
It would have been nice if I had had some kind of warning, don't you think?

George

Pete

2006-02-09 20:28:14 UTC

Post by George
George

The fact that is that you are no longer producing the acid that will
deal with bugs that cause food poisoning and the like. Like you I
have Haital Hernia and find that Nexium is the PPI that suits me
best. I had something akin to IBS three years ago but that was
defiantly due to the antibiotics rather than the PPI when I had
triple therapy for Helicobacter pylori. The pain from that lasted
for about a year. My doctor also takes a PPI and says that when he
goes abroad to less hygienic countries he stops taking it as he
needs the protection of acid then. During that time he takes liquid
Gaviscon to help his reflux. Do you know that another issue from
lack of stomach acid is that polyps often form in the stomach and of
course Nexium can cause lack of sexual desire in both men and women
:-) Derek.

Yeah, I'm aware of what the medicine does. I didn't know at the time
that shutting down the acid production would cause me to get
infectious colitis. It would have been nice if I had had some kind of
warning, don't you think?

George...I was going to ask you before,but didn't. How the hell were you
diagnosed with infectious colitis (what kind of doctor and by what method).
I'm sure you didn't have a scope since you don't have insurance. You didn't
indicate how you were diagnosed when you mentioned it in your post
previously. Was you family doctor just guessing or what.

BTW this thread is getting out of hand. If it keeps up everybody should at
least snip...Pete

Post by George
George

George

2006-02-10 02:10:25 UTC

Post by George
George

Yeah, I'm aware of what the medicine does. I didn't know at the time
that shutting down the acid production would cause me to get
infectious colitis. It would have been nice if I had had some kind of
warning, don't you think?

George...I was going to ask you before,but didn't. How the hell were you
diagnosed with infectious colitis (what kind of doctor and by what
method). I'm sure you didn't have a scope since you don't have insurance.
You didn't indicate how you were diagnosed when you mentioned it in your
post previously. Was you family doctor just guessing or what.
BTW this thread is getting out of hand. If it keeps up everybody should
at least snip...Pete

Post by George
George

I went to my regular family doctor (not the one I mentioned earlier), and
he used a rectal probe, and took a stool sample.

George

Pete

2006-02-10 02:29:54 UTC

Post by George
George

Yeah, I'm aware of what the medicine does. I didn't know at the
time that shutting down the acid production would cause me to get
infectious colitis. It would have been nice if I had had some kind
of warning, don't you think?

George...I was going to ask you before,but didn't. How the hell
were you diagnosed with infectious colitis (what kind of doctor and
by what method). I'm sure you didn't have a scope since you don't
have insurance. You didn't indicate how you were diagnosed when you
mentioned it in your post previously. Was you family doctor just
guessing or what. BTW this thread is getting out of hand. If it keeps up
everybody
should at least snip...Pete

Post by George
George

I went to my regular family doctor (not the one I mentioned earlier),
and he used a rectal probe, and took a stool sample.

Boy those days are gone in the U.S.A. That's unbelievable. Did you mean a
real probe with an anascope or just a digital exam with his finger. Shit,
even the general surgeons where I live now don't have anascopes (one did in
my last residence - he had a neat little 6 inch scope with a light in it -
colorectal surgeons also use the old ball in socket type, kind of like a
specula).

Sorry I'm going off again, but my point is you can't get anything from a
damn gen practioner or internist these days except a referral to a
specialist. Good for your doctor. You are in U.K. aren't you. Maybe it's
better over there, but I tend to doubt it...Pete

George

2006-02-11 02:31:45 UTC

Post by George
George

Yeah, I'm aware of what the medicine does. I didn't know at the
time that shutting down the acid production would cause me to get
infectious colitis. It would have been nice if I had had some kind
of warning, don't you think?

George...I was going to ask you before,but didn't. How the hell
were you diagnosed with infectious colitis (what kind of doctor and
by what method). I'm sure you didn't have a scope since you don't
have insurance. You didn't indicate how you were diagnosed when you
mentioned it in your post previously. Was you family doctor just
guessing or what. BTW this thread is getting out of hand. If it keeps
up everybody
should at least snip...Pete

Post by George
George

I went to my regular family doctor (not the one I mentioned earlier),
and he used a rectal probe, and took a stool sample.

Boy those days are gone in the U.S.A. That's unbelievable. Did you mean
a real probe with an anascope or just a digital exam with his finger.
Shit, even the general surgeons where I live now don't have anascopes
(one did in my last residence - he had a neat little 6 inch scope with a
light in it - colorectal surgeons also use the old ball in socket type,
kind of like a specula).
Sorry I'm going off again, but my point is you can't get anything from a
damn gen practioner or internist these days except a referral to a
specialist. Good for your doctor. You are in U.K. aren't you. Maybe
it's better over there, but I tend to doubt it...Pete

I don't know what kind of probe it was. He didn't use his finger. He used
some kind of metal impliment (man, it was cold!) that I assumed was a probe
that allowed him to look up into my colon and collect a sample. No, I'm in
Louisville, Kentucky. We have a huge medical community here, lots of
doctors, specialists, and nurses, hospitals and medical centers. The
Jargis artifical heart program was located here, if you recall. We also
have some of the best orthopedic surgeons in the business. In fact, the
medical profession is the largest profession here. Louisville is a
regional powerhouse for the medical profession. If you look at the job
listings here, you will see that about 90% of the jobs listed are
medical-related. And the doctor I went to for this problem is a member of
a large group of general practioners (family doctors, about 25, in all).

George

Pete

2006-02-11 03:13:53 UTC

Post by George
George

Yeah, I'm aware of what the medicine does. I didn't know at the
time that shutting down the acid production would cause me to get
infectious colitis. It would have been nice if I had had some kind
of warning, don't you think?

George...I was going to ask you before,but didn't. How the hell
were you diagnosed with infectious colitis (what kind of doctor and
by what method). I'm sure you didn't have a scope since you don't
have insurance. You didn't indicate how you were diagnosed when you
mentioned it in your post previously. Was you family doctor just
guessing or what. BTW this thread is getting out of hand. If it
keeps up everybody
should at least snip...Pete

Post by George
George

I went to my regular family doctor (not the one I mentioned
earlier), and he used a rectal probe, and took a stool sample.

Boy those days are gone in the U.S.A. That's unbelievable. Did you
mean a real probe with an anascope or just a digital exam with his
finger. Shit, even the general surgeons where I live now don't have
anascopes (one did in my last residence - he had a neat little 6
inch scope with a light in it - colorectal surgeons also use the old
ball in socket type, kind of like a specula).
Sorry I'm going off again, but my point is you can't get anything
from a damn gen practioner or internist these days except a referral
to a specialist. Good for your doctor. You are in U.K. aren't you.
Maybe it's better over there, but I tend to doubt it...Pete

I don't know what kind of probe it was. He didn't use his finger. He used
some kind of metal impliment (man, it was cold!) that I
assumed was a probe that allowed him to look up into my colon and
collect a sample. No, I'm in Louisville, Kentucky. We have a huge
medical community here, lots of doctors, specialists, and nurses,
hospitals and medical centers. The Jargis artifical heart program
was located here, if you recall. We also have some of the best
orthopedic surgeons in the business. In fact, the medical profession
is the largest profession here. Louisville is a regional powerhouse
for the medical profession. If you look at the job listings here,
you will see that about 90% of the jobs listed are medical-related. And
the doctor I went to for this problem is a member of a large
group of general practioners (family doctors, about 25, in all).
George

Sorry about the U.K. thing George, I guess you meant the Kentucky Derby when
you said
derby city before in a response to Derek :-) ...Pete

George

2006-02-11 04:42:30 UTC

Post by George
George

Yeah, I'm aware of what the medicine does. I didn't know at the
time that shutting down the acid production would cause me to get
infectious colitis. It would have been nice if I had had some kind
of warning, don't you think?

George...I was going to ask you before,but didn't. How the hell
were you diagnosed with infectious colitis (what kind of doctor and
by what method). I'm sure you didn't have a scope since you don't
have insurance. You didn't indicate how you were diagnosed when you
mentioned it in your post previously. Was you family doctor just
guessing or what. BTW this thread is getting out of hand. If it
keeps up everybody
should at least snip...Pete

Post by George
George

I went to my regular family doctor (not the one I mentioned
earlier), and he used a rectal probe, and took a stool sample.

Boy those days are gone in the U.S.A. That's unbelievable. Did you
mean a real probe with an anascope or just a digital exam with his
finger. Shit, even the general surgeons where I live now don't have
anascopes (one did in my last residence - he had a neat little 6
inch scope with a light in it - colorectal surgeons also use the old
ball in socket type, kind of like a specula).
Sorry I'm going off again, but my point is you can't get anything
from a damn gen practioner or internist these days except a referral
to a specialist. Good for your doctor. You are in U.K. aren't you.
Maybe it's better over there, but I tend to doubt it...Pete

I don't know what kind of probe it was. He didn't use his finger. He
used some kind of metal impliment (man, it was cold!) that I
assumed was a probe that allowed him to look up into my colon and
collect a sample. No, I'm in Louisville, Kentucky. We have a huge
medical community here, lots of doctors, specialists, and nurses,
hospitals and medical centers. The Jargis artifical heart program
was located here, if you recall. We also have some of the best
orthopedic surgeons in the business. In fact, the medical profession
is the largest profession here. Louisville is a regional powerhouse
for the medical profession. If you look at the job listings here,
you will see that about 90% of the jobs listed are medical-related. And
the doctor I went to for this problem is a member of a large
group of general practioners (family doctors, about 25, in all).
George

Sorry about the U.K. thing George, I guess you meant the Kentucky Derby
when you said
derby city before in a response to Derek :-) ...Pete

Yes. No problem.

George

Pete

2006-02-07 19:50:35 UTC

Post by George
Hi Jerry. Yes I am all aware of the agony non-life-threatening pain.
On another note, I also have a hiatal hernia. My family doctor
prescribed nexium for the condition back in 2004. I was on the
medication for about 9 months. In November of that year I developed
a really bad case of infectious colitis. I have to say that that was
about the worst illness I've ever experienced. Because I am
unemployed, I stopped taking that medication after the prescription
ran out, and started using standard antacids when I need it, which
helps. About a month ago, I learned that the FDA has warned that
proton pump inhibitors like nexium shuts down natural defenses
against certain bacterial infections of the intestines and colon, and
can lead to severe infectious colitis. Can you believe it???

George...Could you find the site or whatever where you learned about the FDA
warning. I have been on PPI's for 8 years now, and can't live without them.
I am on my third one now since my prevacid stopped working in 2004 (went
through hell). They have caused fundic polyps in my stomach, which scares
the hell out of me but can't do anything about. Hiatel hernia surgery (or
fundos) is major surgery and can mess up your vagus nerve - then you may not
be able to swallow or burp or vomit (bad stuff - a general surgeon told me
hiatel hernia surgery made colostomies look like a walk in the park).

If what you say is true, now I am really screwed. I know I have proctotitis
and/or sigmoid colitis as I write this, and have had severe rectal pain
along with my uro problems in last few months. Just had third hemorrhoid
surgery last August, and all the surgeons banded up and dropped my
insurance. There is one left that takes my insurance, and I can't get to
see him till Feb 24. I don't get along with doctors, so I am worried about
the upcoming visit.

For what it's worth the PPI's are about ten times more effective than H2
blockers (zantac,etc), and infinitely better than OTC antacids. H2 blockers
won't touch my GERD and antacids are a joke. And if you take antacids all
the time you could end up with more trouble than taking PPI's (either the
metal ones or the calcium ones).

Please see if you can find that site about the FDA. Thanks...Pete

For the

Post by George
life of me I could never understand how I got such a bad infection.
NOW I KNOW! Bastards! Anyway, I survived. Others were not so lucky.
I understand that a number of nursing home patients died from it.
George

George

2006-02-09 07:06:53 UTC

Post by George
Hi Jerry. Yes I am all aware of the agony non-life-threatening pain.
On another note, I also have a hiatal hernia. My family doctor
prescribed nexium for the condition back in 2004. I was on the
medication for about 9 months. In November of that year I developed
a really bad case of infectious colitis. I have to say that that was
about the worst illness I've ever experienced. Because I am
unemployed, I stopped taking that medication after the prescription
ran out, and started using standard antacids when I need it, which
helps. About a month ago, I learned that the FDA has warned that
proton pump inhibitors like nexium shuts down natural defenses
against certain bacterial infections of the intestines and colon, and
can lead to severe infectious colitis. Can you believe it???

George...Could you find the site or whatever where you learned about the
FDA warning. I have been on PPI's for 8 years now, and can't live
without them. I am on my third one now since my prevacid stopped working
in 2004 (went through hell). They have caused fundic polyps in my
stomach, which scares the hell out of me but can't do anything about.
Hiatel hernia surgery (or fundos) is major surgery and can mess up your
vagus nerve - then you may not be able to swallow or burp or vomit (bad
stuff - a general surgeon told me hiatel hernia surgery made colostomies
look like a walk in the park).
If what you say is true, now I am really screwed. I know I have
proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis as I write this, and have had severe
rectal pain along with my uro problems in last few months. Just had
third hemorrhoid surgery last August, and all the surgeons banded up and
dropped my insurance. There is one left that takes my insurance, and I
can't get to see him till Feb 24. I don't get along with doctors, so I
am worried about the upcoming visit.
For what it's worth the PPI's are about ten times more effective than H2
blockers (zantac,etc), and infinitely better than OTC antacids. H2
blockers won't touch my GERD and antacids are a joke. And if you take
antacids all the time you could end up with more trouble than taking
PPI's (either the metal ones or the calcium ones).
Please see if you can find that site about the FDA. Thanks...Pete
For the

Wow, Pete. I'm not a doctor, so I can't give you professional advice, but
man to man? If it was me, I'd find another solution. I can't say that
your proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis is caused by the Nexium, but given
my experience with the drug, the length of time it appears that you have
taken it, and the health warnings that are out there, if it was me? I'd
have serious doubts about continuing its use. If you stop taking it, you
didn't get that from me. I would, however, have a serious discussion of
this issue with your doctor. Research it on the internet, print out
anything you can find on it, and take that information with you.

I couldn't find an FDA warning (hell, I'm not entirely sure it was the FDA
that made the warning), but the findings were originally made by Sandra
Dial, MD, MSc, a researcher at McGill University in Montreal. Her study
appears in The Journal of the American Medical Association. Here is a Web
M.D. article about the problem:

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/116/112226.htm

And here is the original article I read:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10535637/

I hope this helps. Good luck. Keep your chin up. I feel your pain, man!

George

Derek F

2006-02-09 11:33:43 UTC

Post by George
Hi Jerry. Yes I am all aware of the agony non-life-threatening pain.
On another note, I also have a hiatal hernia. My family doctor
prescribed nexium for the condition back in 2004. I was on the
medication for about 9 months. In November of that year I developed
a really bad case of infectious colitis. I have to say that that was
about the worst illness I've ever experienced. Because I am
unemployed, I stopped taking that medication after the prescription
ran out, and started using standard antacids when I need it, which
helps. About a month ago, I learned that the FDA has warned that
proton pump inhibitors like nexium shuts down natural defenses
against certain bacterial infections of the intestines and colon, and
can lead to severe infectious colitis. Can you believe it???

George...Could you find the site or whatever where you learned about the
FDA warning. I have been on PPI's for 8 years now, and can't live
without them. I am on my third one now since my prevacid stopped working
in 2004 (went through hell). They have caused fundic polyps in my
stomach, which scares the hell out of me but can't do anything about.
Hiatel hernia surgery (or fundos) is major surgery and can mess up your
vagus nerve - then you may not be able to swallow or burp or vomit (bad
stuff - a general surgeon told me hiatel hernia surgery made colostomies
look like a walk in the park).
If what you say is true, now I am really screwed. I know I have
proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis as I write this, and have had severe
rectal pain along with my uro problems in last few months. Just had
third hemorrhoid surgery last August, and all the surgeons banded up and
dropped my insurance. There is one left that takes my insurance, and I
can't get to see him till Feb 24. I don't get along with doctors, so I
am worried about the upcoming visit.
For what it's worth the PPI's are about ten times more effective than H2
blockers (zantac,etc), and infinitely better than OTC antacids. H2
blockers won't touch my GERD and antacids are a joke. And if you take
antacids all the time you could end up with more trouble than taking
PPI's (either the metal ones or the calcium ones).
Please see if you can find that site about the FDA. Thanks...Pete
For the

Wow, Pete. I'm not a doctor, so I can't give you professional advice, but
man to man? If it was me, I'd find another solution. I can't say that
your proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis is caused by the Nexium, but given
my experience with the drug, the length of time it appears that you have
taken it, and the health warnings that are out there, if it was me? I'd
have serious doubts about continuing its use. If you stop taking it, you
didn't get that from me. I would, however, have a serious discussion of
this issue with your doctor. Research it on the internet, print out
anything you can find on it, and take that information with you.
I couldn't find an FDA warning (hell, I'm not entirely sure it was the FDA
that made the warning), but the findings were originally made by Sandra
Dial, MD, MSc, a researcher at McGill University in Montreal. Her study
appears in The Journal of the American Medical Association. Here is a Web
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/116/112226.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10535637/
I hope this helps. Good luck. Keep your chin up. I feel your pain, man!
George

It is not that Nexium etc cause C- dif but that lack of acid in your stomach
lets C- diff take hold and that those on antibiotics have their healthy
bacteria destroyed. Have you ever tried taking Acidophillus to put good bugs
back into your gut?
A google search on C-diff infection brings up 100's of references. It seems
to be regarded as an infection that lingers around hospitals, nursing homes
and schools affecting the young and the elderly. Outbreaks are always being
highlighted in the UK media.
"According to a study headed by Sandra Dial, MD, MSc, a researcher at McGill
University in Montreal, data was gathered from 3 million patients of 400
general practioners in the U.K. from 1994 to 2004. There were 1,672
identified cases of C-diff, with numbers increasing from less than one per
100,000 in 1994 to 22 per 100,000 in 2004. Dial reported that those patients
taking proton pump inhibitors were nearly three times more likely to acquire
a C-diff infection, and those taking H2 blockers were twice as likely to get
a C-diff infection"
Really quite a small percentage.
http://www.disinclination.info/files/archive-0.html
See heading The Plague !!!
Derek.

Pete

2006-02-09 21:24:41 UTC

Post by Derek F
It is not that Nexium etc cause C- dif but that lack of acid in your
stomach lets C- diff take hold and that those on antibiotics have
their healthy bacteria destroyed. Have you ever tried taking
Acidophillus to put good bugs back into your gut?
A google search on C-diff infection brings up 100's of references. It
seems to be regarded as an infection that lingers around hospitals,
nursing homes and schools affecting the young and the elderly.
Outbreaks are always being highlighted in the UK media.
"According to a study headed by Sandra Dial, MD, MSc, a researcher at
McGill University in Montreal, data was gathered from 3 million
patients of 400 general practioners in the U.K. from 1994 to 2004.
There were 1,672 identified cases of C-diff, with numbers increasing
from less than one per 100,000 in 1994 to 22 per 100,000 in 2004.
Dial reported that those patients taking proton pump inhibitors were
nearly three times more likely to acquire a C-diff infection, and
those taking H2 blockers were twice as likely to get a C-diff
infection" Really quite a small percentage.

Derek...you lost me here. What is quite a small percentage. "Three times
and two times more likely" are not small percentages. I don't see what you
mean by a small percentage. Also see my post to George (just sent -
4:14pm) - I don't want to be redundant...Pete

Post by Derek F
http://www.disinclination.info/files/archive-0.html
See heading The Plague !!!
Derek.

Derek F

2006-02-10 00:28:50 UTC

Derek...you lost me here. What is quite a small percentage. "Three times
and two times more likely" are not small percentages. I don't see what
you mean by a small percentage. Also see my post to George (just sent -
4:14pm) - I don't want to be redundant...Pete

Post by Derek F
http://www.disinclination.info/files/archive-0.html
See heading The Plague !!!
Derek.

22 people per hundred thousand in the general population but three times
that for those on PPI's ie 66 per 100,000.
Derek.

George

2006-02-10 02:13:26 UTC

Post by George
Hi Jerry. Yes I am all aware of the agony non-life-threatening pain.
On another note, I also have a hiatal hernia. My family doctor
prescribed nexium for the condition back in 2004. I was on the
medication for about 9 months. In November of that year I developed
a really bad case of infectious colitis. I have to say that that was
about the worst illness I've ever experienced. Because I am
unemployed, I stopped taking that medication after the prescription
ran out, and started using standard antacids when I need it, which
helps. About a month ago, I learned that the FDA has warned that
proton pump inhibitors like nexium shuts down natural defenses
against certain bacterial infections of the intestines and colon, and
can lead to severe infectious colitis. Can you believe it???

George...Could you find the site or whatever where you learned about
the FDA warning. I have been on PPI's for 8 years now, and can't live
without them. I am on my third one now since my prevacid stopped
working in 2004 (went through hell). They have caused fundic polyps in
my stomach, which scares the hell out of me but can't do anything
about. Hiatel hernia surgery (or fundos) is major surgery and can mess
up your vagus nerve - then you may not be able to swallow or burp or
vomit (bad stuff - a general surgeon told me hiatel hernia surgery made
colostomies look like a walk in the park).
If what you say is true, now I am really screwed. I know I have
proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis as I write this, and have had severe
rectal pain along with my uro problems in last few months. Just had
third hemorrhoid surgery last August, and all the surgeons banded up
and dropped my insurance. There is one left that takes my insurance,
and I can't get to see him till Feb 24. I don't get along with
doctors, so I am worried about the upcoming visit.
For what it's worth the PPI's are about ten times more effective than
H2 blockers (zantac,etc), and infinitely better than OTC antacids. H2
blockers won't touch my GERD and antacids are a joke. And if you take
antacids all the time you could end up with more trouble than taking
PPI's (either the metal ones or the calcium ones).
Please see if you can find that site about the FDA. Thanks...Pete
For the

Wow, Pete. I'm not a doctor, so I can't give you professional advice,
but man to man? If it was me, I'd find another solution. I can't say
that your proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis is caused by the Nexium,
but given my experience with the drug, the length of time it appears
that you have taken it, and the health warnings that are out there, if
it was me? I'd have serious doubts about continuing its use. If you
stop taking it, you didn't get that from me. I would, however, have a
serious discussion of this issue with your doctor. Research it on the
internet, print out anything you can find on it, and take that
information with you.
I couldn't find an FDA warning (hell, I'm not entirely sure it was the
FDA that made the warning), but the findings were originally made by
Sandra Dial, MD, MSc, a researcher at McGill University in Montreal. Her
study appears in The Journal of the American Medical Association. Here
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/116/112226.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10535637/
I hope this helps. Good luck. Keep your chin up. I feel your pain, man!
George

It is not that Nexium etc cause C- dif but that lack of acid in your
stomach lets C- diff take hold and that those on antibiotics have their
healthy bacteria destroyed. Have you ever tried taking Acidophillus to
put good bugs back into your gut?
A google search on C-diff infection brings up 100's of references. It
seems to be regarded as an infection that lingers around hospitals,
nursing homes and schools affecting the young and the elderly. Outbreaks
are always being highlighted in the UK media.
"According to a study headed by Sandra Dial, MD, MSc, a researcher at
McGill University in Montreal, data was gathered from 3 million patients
of 400 general practioners in the U.K. from 1994 to 2004. There were
1,672 identified cases of C-diff, with numbers increasing from less than
one per 100,000 in 1994 to 22 per 100,000 in 2004. Dial reported that
those patients taking proton pump inhibitors were nearly three times more
likely to acquire a C-diff infection, and those taking H2 blockers were
twice as likely to get a C-diff infection"
Really quite a small percentage.
http://www.disinclination.info/files/archive-0.html
See heading The Plague !!!
Derek.

A jump from 1 in 100,000 to 22 in 100,000 is a significant jump.

George

Derek F

2006-02-10 10:41:03 UTC

Post by George
Hi Jerry. Yes I am all aware of the agony non-life-threatening pain.
On another note, I also have a hiatal hernia. My family doctor
prescribed nexium for the condition back in 2004. I was on the
medication for about 9 months. In November of that year I developed
a really bad case of infectious colitis. I have to say that that was
about the worst illness I've ever experienced. Because I am
unemployed, I stopped taking that medication after the prescription
ran out, and started using standard antacids when I need it, which
helps. About a month ago, I learned that the FDA has warned that
proton pump inhibitors like nexium shuts down natural defenses
against certain bacterial infections of the intestines and colon, and
can lead to severe infectious colitis. Can you believe it???

George...Could you find the site or whatever where you learned about
the FDA warning. I have been on PPI's for 8 years now, and can't live
without them. I am on my third one now since my prevacid stopped
working in 2004 (went through hell). They have caused fundic polyps in
my stomach, which scares the hell out of me but can't do anything
about. Hiatel hernia surgery (or fundos) is major surgery and can mess
up your vagus nerve - then you may not be able to swallow or burp or
vomit (bad stuff - a general surgeon told me hiatel hernia surgery made
colostomies look like a walk in the park).
If what you say is true, now I am really screwed. I know I have
proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis as I write this, and have had severe
rectal pain along with my uro problems in last few months. Just had
third hemorrhoid surgery last August, and all the surgeons banded up
and dropped my insurance. There is one left that takes my insurance,
and I can't get to see him till Feb 24. I don't get along with
doctors, so I am worried about the upcoming visit.
For what it's worth the PPI's are about ten times more effective than
H2 blockers (zantac,etc), and infinitely better than OTC antacids. H2
blockers won't touch my GERD and antacids are a joke. And if you take
antacids all the time you could end up with more trouble than taking
PPI's (either the metal ones or the calcium ones).
Please see if you can find that site about the FDA. Thanks...Pete
For the

Wow, Pete. I'm not a doctor, so I can't give you professional advice,
but man to man? If it was me, I'd find another solution. I can't say
that your proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis is caused by the Nexium,
but given my experience with the drug, the length of time it appears
that you have taken it, and the health warnings that are out there, if
it was me? I'd have serious doubts about continuing its use. If you
stop taking it, you didn't get that from me. I would, however, have a
serious discussion of this issue with your doctor. Research it on the
internet, print out anything you can find on it, and take that
information with you.
I couldn't find an FDA warning (hell, I'm not entirely sure it was the
FDA that made the warning), but the findings were originally made by
Sandra Dial, MD, MSc, a researcher at McGill University in Montreal. Her
study appears in The Journal of the American Medical Association. Here
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/116/112226.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10535637/
I hope this helps. Good luck. Keep your chin up. I feel your pain, man!
George

It is not that Nexium etc cause C- dif but that lack of acid in your
stomach lets C- diff take hold and that those on antibiotics have their
healthy bacteria destroyed. Have you ever tried taking Acidophillus to
put good bugs back into your gut?
A google search on C-diff infection brings up 100's of references. It
seems to be regarded as an infection that lingers around hospitals,
nursing homes and schools affecting the young and the elderly. Outbreaks
are always being highlighted in the UK media.
"According to a study headed by Sandra Dial, MD, MSc, a researcher at
McGill University in Montreal, data was gathered from 3 million patients
of 400 general practioners in the U.K. from 1994 to 2004. There were
1,672 identified cases of C-diff, with numbers increasing from less than
one per 100,000 in 1994 to 22 per 100,000 in 2004. Dial reported that
those patients taking proton pump inhibitors were nearly three times more
likely to acquire a C-diff infection, and those taking H2 blockers were
twice as likely to get a C-diff infection"
Really quite a small percentage.
http://www.disinclination.info/files/archive-0.html
See heading The Plague !!!
Derek.

A jump from 1 in 100,000 to 22 in 100,000 is a significant jump.
George

Look at the figures for the incidence of MRSA in the U.K.:-)
Derek.

All Things Mopar

2006-02-10 12:55:59 UTC

Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

Post by George
A jump from 1 in 100,000 to 22 in 100,000 is a significant
jump.

Only if you're one of the 21! <grin> Seriously, Vioxx was killed
because 125 people allegedly died from heart conditions, yet it
has still to be proven. Meanwhile, /millions/ of people are
denied pain medication they need to sustain their lifestyles.

But, I am not an apologist for doctors or the greedy drug
makers. A doctor damn near killed me in 1998 giving me Naproxin
without verifying I didn't have a stomach problem. I developed a
severe bleeding duodenal ulcer and was in the hospital for 6
days. So, I'm aware of potential problems and question the hell
out of my doctors and do my own research before starting
something new, or getting any new procedure done to me.

--
ATM, aka Jerry

George

2006-02-11 02:36:26 UTC

Post by All Things Mopar
Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

Post by George
A jump from 1 in 100,000 to 22 in 100,000 is a significant
jump.

Only if you're one of the 21! <grin>

Apparently, I was.

Post by All Things Mopar
Seriously, Vioxx was killed
because 125 people allegedly died from heart conditions, yet it
has still to be proven. Meanwhile, /millions/ of people are
denied pain medication they need to sustain their lifestyles.
But, I am not an apologist for doctors or the greedy drug
makers. A doctor damn near killed me in 1998 giving me Naproxin
without verifying I didn't have a stomach problem. I developed a
severe bleeding duodenal ulcer and was in the hospital for 6
days. So, I'm aware of potential problems and question the hell
out of my doctors and do my own research before starting
something new, or getting any new procedure done to me.
--
ATM, aka Jerry

Some doctors, no doubt, don't spend enough time on screening (some don't
even try to stay up to date on the latest research), while others spend an
inordinate amount of time and money trying to diagnose individual symptoms
and don't take a close enough look at the big picture. It is a serious
problem.

George

All Things Mopar

2006-02-11 02:46:34 UTC

Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

Post by George
Some doctors, no doubt, don't spend enough time on
screening (some don't even try to stay up to date on the
latest research), while others spend an inordinate amount
of time and money trying to diagnose individual symptoms
and don't take a close enough look at the big picture. It
is a serious problem.

My docs don't remember from one appointment to another what I
say to them, and they can't seem to connect the symptoms. I'm
referring primarily right now to /me/ making the "diagnosis"
that my IBS is related to my IC far more than current research
suggests. Yes, the gastro guy knows the uro stuff, and vice
versa, but I /cannot/ get them to speculate into the other
specialty! Come on, guys, you're very smart and very
experienced. Ditto for meds. /I/ discover what may help on my
own. It aggravates me to no end to have one say "oh, yeah, that
might help, I'll write you a script." Duh! Where the hell were
you when the page was blank, while I was suffering in ignorance?

I haven't run through near as many doctors as some, and
fortunately I don't have your employment-related insurance
problems, but finding, getting, and keeping a competant, caring
doctor is no trivial task.

--
ATM, aka Jerry

Pete

2006-02-11 03:45:07 UTC

Post by All Things Mopar
Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

My docs don't remember from one appointment to another what I
say to them, and they can't seem to connect the symptoms. I'm
referring primarily right now to /me/ making the "diagnosis"
that my IBS is related to my IC far more than current research
suggests. Yes, the gastro guy knows the uro stuff, and vice
versa, but I /cannot/ get them to speculate into the other
specialty! Come on, guys, you're very smart and very
experienced. Ditto for meds. /I/ discover what may help on my
own. It aggravates me to no end to have one say "oh, yeah, that
might help, I'll write you a script." Duh! Where the hell were
you when the page was blank, while I was suffering in ignorance?
I haven't run through near as many doctors as some, and
fortunately I don't have your employment-related insurance
problems, but finding, getting, and keeping a competant, caring
doctor is no trivial task.

Jerry...we have discussed this before many times in the IC ng, and I totally
agree with you 100%, and this is why I don't like doctors. I hate it when
they go fumbling through their chart in a blind stare trying to figure out
who they are talking to and what your history is (I know they see a lot of
patients, but that excuse only goes so far). It took me six years to get my
last internist (a young man) to call me by my first name. I was just a
chart to him - and he would tap on the door and say "Hey how are you doing",
not knowing who he was talking to - and I could hear him say the same thing
to the other patients - and I saw him every three months. And now I have a
new internist because the other one up and quit for a promotion, just when I
finally got him to call me Pete. I hate it when doctors won't take the time
or the effort to be more personable, and show a bedside manner, and call you
by your first name. I always introduce myself to them and try to shake
their hands, and it usually goes in one ear and out the other.

I could easily write a book about my misfortunes with doctors and the
insults and abuse I have taken from them. I have been to many bad doctors
in my life who IMO should not be practicing medicine. I consider them
necessary evils, and I have grown to be afraid of them for fear if I say
something wrong I will be dismissed.

I hate it, and am running out of doctors in the small community I live
(especially since they all band together), and if you try to give the next
doctor too much of your history he will just jump on the band wagon and
agree with the other doctors or think that you are a "problem patient".
It's tricky stuff and you have to be very careful what you say to them,
because they will write nasty notes about you (forgetting that we can get
complete copies of our medical history any time we want). Oooops, I hate it
when it does that :-):-) ...Pete

All Things Mopar

2006-02-11 03:59:01 UTC

Today Pete commented courteously on the subject at hand

Post by All Things Mopar
Today George commented courteously on the subject at hand

My docs don't remember from one appointment to another
what I say to them, and they can't seem to connect the
symptoms. I'm referring primarily right now to /me/ making
the "diagnosis" that my IBS is related to my IC far more
than current research suggests. Yes, the gastro guy knows
the uro stuff, and vice versa, but I /cannot/ get them to
speculate into the other specialty! Come on, guys, you're
very smart and very experienced. Ditto for meds. /I/
discover what may help on my own. It aggravates me to no
end to have one say "oh, yeah, that might help, I'll write
you a script." Duh! Where the hell were you when the page
was blank, while I was suffering in ignorance?
I haven't run through near as many doctors as some, and
fortunately I don't have your employment-related insurance
problems, but finding, getting, and keeping a competant,
caring doctor is no trivial task.

Jerry...we have discussed this before many times in the IC
ng, and I totally agree with you 100%, and this is why I
don't like doctors. I hate it when they go fumbling
through their chart in a blind stare trying to figure out
who they are talking to and what your history is (I know
they see a lot of patients, but that excuse only goes so
far). It took me six years to get my last internist (a
young man) to call me by my first name. I was just a chart
to him - and he would tap on the door and say "Hey how are
you doing", not knowing who he was talking to - and I could
hear him say the same thing to the other patients - and I
saw him every three months. And now I have a new internist
because the other one up and quit for a promotion, just
when I finally got him to call me Pete. I hate it when
doctors won't take the time or the effort to be more
personable, and show a bedside manner, and call you by your
first name. I always introduce myself to them and try to
shake their hands, and it usually goes in one ear and out
the other.
I could easily write a book about my misfortunes with
doctors and the insults and abuse I have taken from them.
I have been to many bad doctors in my life who IMO should
not be practicing medicine. I consider them necessary
evils, and I have grown to be afraid of them for fear if I
say something wrong I will be dismissed.
I hate it, and am running out of doctors in the small
community I live (especially since they all band together),
and if you try to give the next doctor too much of your
history he will just jump on the band wagon and agree with
the other doctors or think that you are a "problem
patient". It's tricky stuff and you have to be very careful
what you say to them, because they will write nasty notes
about you (forgetting that we can get complete copies of
our medical history any time we want). Oooops, I hate it
when it does that :-):-) ...Pete

I agree fully, although my experience isn't as any near
extensive nor as negative as yours. The "these guys stick
together" little club is so strong that the easiest way to get
fired by /all/ your doctors, whether you're a a small town as
you are or a big city like I am, is to have the temarity to
say one of their colleagues is incompetant - even if they are,
your doc knows it, and he may even hate the other guy himself!

The very best thing I've found is to be 1,000% prepared when I
walk in. A /long/ time ago I stated giving them a MS Word doc
with my current meds on it, and a short MS Word doc of the
scripts I want, so they don't F__k something up, and they
still do! My family doctor and urologist /know/ what is in my
chart, right? And, they know what I'm allergic to, right? And,
they have a printed page to tell them the drug name, the exact
mg dosage and quantity, right? So, how can they possibly
/still/ write the script wrong? When I last went to the
hospital for a hytdrodistension, I gave my urologist all that,
the meds /I/ knew he was going to prescribe post op, remind
him of what he could /not/ prescribe because I'm allergic,
even the size catheter I wanted. When you wake up in recovery,
he's long gone and you're toast.

When the nurse anthetist injects the kickapoo joy juice, I am
literally out like a light in 15 seconds flat, and the very
next thing I'm aware of is the nurse saying "you did fine, Mr.
Rivers, we're going to wheel you into recovery now." So, I
look at the wall clock, and 30-45 minutes of my life is
missing! What exactly did or did not go on in those minutes? I
will never know, except what I /can't/ feel for 3 hours from
the spinal. I have had a very brief encounter with what it
must feel like to be a paraplegic, and mine is only a few
hours. Egad!

What is absolutely scary is if 3 people who've been working on
this as long as you, me, and George have can get messed around
even though we are /very/ knowledgeable, what the hell happens
to some poor bastard that just goes to the doc and says "how
come my bladder hurts all the time?"!

--
ATM, aka Jerry

Derek F

2006-02-19 01:02:17 UTC

Post by George
Hi Jerry. Yes I am all aware of the agony non-life-threatening pain.
On another note, I also have a hiatal hernia. My family doctor
prescribed nexium for the condition back in 2004. I was on the
medication for about 9 months. In November of that year I developed
a really bad case of infectious colitis. I have to say that that was
about the worst illness I've ever experienced. Because I am
unemployed, I stopped taking that medication after the prescription
ran out, and started using standard antacids when I need it, which
helps. About a month ago, I learned that the FDA has warned that
proton pump inhibitors like nexium shuts down natural defenses
against certain bacterial infections of the intestines and colon, and
can lead to severe infectious colitis. Can you believe it???

George...Could you find the site or whatever where you learned about the
FDA warning. I have been on PPI's for 8 years now, and can't live
without them. I am on my third one now since my prevacid stopped working
in 2004 (went through hell). They have caused fundic polyps in my
stomach, which scares the hell out of me but can't do anything about.
Hiatel hernia surgery (or fundos) is major surgery and can mess up your
vagus nerve - then you may not be able to swallow or burp or vomit (bad
stuff - a general surgeon told me hiatel hernia surgery made colostomies
look like a walk in the park).
If what you say is true, now I am really screwed. I know I have
proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis as I write this, and have had severe
rectal pain along with my uro problems in last few months. Just had
third hemorrhoid surgery last August, and all the surgeons banded up and
dropped my insurance. There is one left that takes my insurance, and I
can't get to see him till Feb 24. I don't get along with doctors, so I
am worried about the upcoming visit.
For what it's worth the PPI's are about ten times more effective than H2
blockers (zantac,etc), and infinitely better than OTC antacids. H2
blockers won't touch my GERD and antacids are a joke. And if you take
antacids all the time you could end up with more trouble than taking
PPI's (either the metal ones or the calcium ones).
Please see if you can find that site about the FDA. Thanks...Pete
For the

Wow, Pete. I'm not a doctor, so I can't give you professional advice,
but man to man? If it was me, I'd find another solution. I can't say
that your proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis is caused by the Nexium, but
given my experience with the drug, the length of time it appears that you
have taken it, and the health warnings that are out there, if it was me?
I'd have serious doubts about continuing its use. If you stop taking it,
you didn't get that from me. I would, however, have a serious discussion
of this issue with your doctor. Research it on the internet, print out
anything you can find on it, and take that information with you.
I couldn't find an FDA warning (hell, I'm not entirely sure it was the
FDA that made the warning), but the findings were originally made by
Sandra Dial, MD, MSc, a researcher at McGill University in Montreal. Her
study appears in The Journal of the American Medical Association. Here
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/116/112226.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10535637/
I hope this helps. Good luck. Keep your chin up. I feel your pain, man!
George

It is not that Nexium etc cause C- dif but that lack of acid in your
stomach lets C- diff take hold and that those on antibiotics have their
healthy bacteria destroyed. Have you ever tried taking Acidophillus to put
good bugs back into your gut?
A google search on C-diff infection brings up 100's of references. It
seems to be regarded as an infection that lingers around hospitals,
nursing homes and schools affecting the young and the elderly. Outbreaks
are always being highlighted in the UK media.
"According to a study headed by Sandra Dial, MD, MSc, a researcher at
McGill University in Montreal, data was gathered from 3 million patients
of 400 general practioners in the U.K. from 1994 to 2004. There were 1,672
identified cases of C-diff, with numbers increasing from less than one per
100,000 in 1994 to 22 per 100,000 in 2004. Dial reported that those
patients taking proton pump inhibitors were nearly three times more likely
to acquire a C-diff infection, and those taking H2 blockers were twice as
likely to get a C-diff infection"
Really quite a small percentage.
http://www.disinclination.info/files/archive-0.html
See heading The Plague !!!
Derek.

Good news on C-diff British Company Acambis are developing a vaccine against
it: Hope it is another winner for them as I have some shares :-)
Derek.
Announces results from a Phase 1 trial of its investigational vaccine
against Clostridium difficile (C. difficile) in healthy adults. Acambis'
Phase 1 trial evaluated the safety, tolerability and immunogenicity of its
C. difficile vaccine when administered at different dose levels. The
randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled study included a total of 50
healthy adult subjects: 37 subjects received Acambis' C. difficile vaccine
and a control group of 13 subjects received placebo. Antibody responses were
seen in all subjects who received Acambis' vaccine. Four weeks after the
first injection of the highest dose, anti-toxin A and anti-toxin B
immunoglobulin G levels were at least 10-fold higher than those reported in
another study of patients who had recovered from natural infection with C.
difficile and did not suffer recurrent disease. Future efficacy trials will
investigate the antibody levels produced by the vaccine that are needed for
clinical protection against CDAD. Acambis said that vaccination at all dose
levels was well tolerated in all subjects. The majority of side effects
observed were those typical of vaccines injected intramuscularly. These
reactions included mild tenderness, redness and pain at the injection site,
and headache. No subjects experienced unexpected or serious vaccine-related
adverse events. C. difficile infection is a leading cause of
antibiotic-associated diarrhoea in hospitals. Most C. difficile-associated
disease (CDAD) cases involve elderly individuals who become infected in
hospitals and long-term care facilities that have become reservoirs of these
bacteria. It is estimated that C. difficile causes at least 350,000 cases in
the US alone with annual costs to the healthcare system exceeding $1bn.
Recently, researchers from Canada, the UK and the US have reported markedly
increased rates of CDAD and more serious disease. In a recent outbreak in
Quebec caused by a new epidemic strain, the mortality attributable to C.
difficile was 16.7%. Chief Scientific Officer of Acambis Dr Thomas Monath
said: "These results are encouraging and show that subjects vaccinated with
our C. difficile vaccine developed high levels of antibodies against toxins
A and B, the toxins responsible for CDAD." As previously announced, a second
Phase 1 trial of Acambis' C. difficile vaccine is underway in healthy
elderly adults with results expected later this year. Phase 2
proof-of-principle trials are scheduled to commence before the end of the
year.

Pete

2006-02-09 21:14:28 UTC

Post by George
Wow, Pete. I'm not a doctor, so I can't give you professional
advice, but man to man? If it was me, I'd find another solution. I
can't say that your proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis is caused by
the Nexium, but given my experience with the drug, the length of time
it appears that you have taken it, and the health warnings that are
out there, if it was me? I'd have serious doubts about continuing its
use. If you stop taking it, you didn't get that from me. I would,
however, have a serious discussion of this issue with your doctor.

George...You don't understand the complications I have with doctors. I used
to discuss this with you and Jerry in the IC ng (been to over 75 docs in my
life - nothing to show for it - da da da da). And you don't even have
insurance (god bless you). There is a doctor in the bph ng called Dr.
Sancha who is awesome and one of the few good doctors in the damn planet IMO
(although I can only speak for the U.S.). You and Jerry wouldn't know him
because you are reading all this in the IC site because of the damn cross
posting (that has ruined this thread).

Anyway when you make a statement like "I would have a serious discussion of
this issue with your doctor". Which doctor - my damn primary care, who
doesn't do anything and says it is not his cog, or the damn uro's who have
allowed me to take too many anti's which is probably more responsible for
any type of intestinal problems than the PPI's (like Derek has said - Derek
is absolutely right about this), or my gastro (I'm on my last one where I
live) and he is another doc I don't like, and will be doing my routine EGD's
to check my polyps. I will ask the general surgeon for a colonoscopy when I
see him on Feb 24, but the prep will ruin me, and I don't know how they can
even identify the inflammation from the prep from colitis. The preps tear
me up.

Anyway I told you I can not live without the PPI's, but if I have more than
50 polyps on my next EGD, I don't know what to do. Last gastro tried to
remove them twice [EGD's were six weeks apart, and my PPI's coincidentally
stopped working (but I think it had something to do with the surgery), and
he dismissed me because I was suffering like hell and said he could not help
me when I kept calling - bastard]. My current gastro is an old timer and
doesn't believe in removing fundic polyps if they are hyperplastic. But
there has to be a limit if the son of bitches keep growing like wild fire.

I have taken too many anti's in my life (a lot in the last year for my
prostate problems which are supposedly non bacterial - but I took the anti's
anyway - just in case something was deep or as a prophylactic). I have been
through all this before in this group and with you and Jerry in the IC ng.
But Derek is right about the anti's they can mess you up. I also took
acidophilus with them, but that doesn't guarantee anything.

I am rambling and ran out of steam :-) ...Pete

Post by George
Research it on the internet, print out anything you can find on it,
and take that information with you.

All Things Mopar

2006-02-09 22:06:45 UTC

Today Pete commented courteously on the subject at hand

Post by Pete
George...You don't understand the complications I have with
doctors. I used to discuss this with you and Jerry in the
IC ng (been to over 75 docs in my life - nothing to show
for it - da da da da). And you don't even have insurance
(god bless you). There is a doctor in the bph ng called
Dr. Sancha who is awesome and one of the few good doctors
in the damn planet IMO (although I can only speak for the
U.S.). You and Jerry wouldn't know him because you are
reading all this in the IC site because of the damn cross
posting (that has ruined this thread).

75 docs? WTF?! Now /that/ is a bad experience! Even with
pretty good insurance, unless I wanted to travel all around
the country, I'd have a tough time finding anything near that
many to see, much less fire, as you apparently have.

Maybe I should be more agressive since I am on a very slippery
downhill slope right now. It is my IBS that is getting worse
almost by the day.

I get "stopped up" for days at a time, but it isn't classical
constipation in that when I do have a BM, it isn't very small,
very hard pellets of shit. The first BM is an effort, which
wrecks havoc with my 'roids, but once it starts, the stool is
actually quite soft due to the 4-6 generic stool softeners I
take after every meal.

It has only been a month, maybe less, since I made the
connection between my IC hurting - even with a Foley in place
right now - and my colonic condition. As I get more stopped
up, the IC gets worse. And, after my shitter lets loose, the
IC gets bad again. What caused me to finally make the
connection was my doc telling me a couple of times that he was
seeing the sigmoid colon pushing on the bladder. He kept
prescribing Colace and I gave up trying to get the guy to
remember I'm already taking the stuff.

Since, the "constipation" as I feel it also causes my severe
nausea, again on the stopped up side and the loose stool side
of my cycles, is somehow related, if I can somehow fix
whatever is causing the shit to stay in, I'll solve my nausea
and IC problem at the same time. Or, so I'd like to think.

I guess I've got to bite the bullet and go to the U of M med
center like I've been told and have an IBS consult, with the
usual tests. What it feels like to me is that the very soft
stool gets caught where the transverse colon makes a right
angle turn to the descending color. Egad, a tumor?! I haven't
had a colonoscopy in 4+ years, but my gastro guy and
everything I've ever read says a tumor large enough to cause
symptoms just can't grow that fast. Still...

My doc also suggested I might want to get something called a
"colon transit study" done, which simply involves swallowing
some kinds pill that can be tracked via some sort of X-rays as
it travels though the colon. He says there's no side effects
(yeah, right!) and is often incidative of a nerve or motility
muscle problem.

Post by Pete
Anyway when you make a statement like "I would have a
serious discussion of this issue with your doctor". Which
doctor - my damn primary care, who doesn't do anything and
says it is not his cog, or the damn uro's who have allowed
me to take too many anti's which is probably more
responsible for any type of intestinal problems than the
PPI's (like Derek has said - Derek is absolutely right
about this), or my gastro (I'm on my last one where I live)
and he is another doc I don't like, and will be doing my
routine EGD's to check my polyps. I will ask the general
surgeon for a colonoscopy when I see him on Feb 24, but the
prep will ruin me, and I don't know how they can even
identify the inflammation from the prep from colitis. The
preps tear me up.

I take no anti-H's since it originally contributed to my
urinary retention, so I guess I'm not in the same boat as you
and George.

Post by Pete
Anyway I told you I can not live without the PPI's, but if
I have more than 50 polyps on my next EGD, I don't know
what to do. Last gastro tried to remove them twice [EGD's
were six weeks apart, and my PPI's coincidentally stopped
working (but I think it had something to do with the
surgery), and he dismissed me because I was suffering like
hell and said he could not help me when I kept calling -
bastard]. My current gastro is an old timer and doesn't
believe in removing fundic polyps if they are hyperplastic.
But there has to be a limit if the son of bitches keep
growing like wild fire.

50 polyps on your last EGD? Jesus Christ! I have /never/ had
any polyps anywhere, certainly not in my stomach. Thankfully
up to now, I've also never had any polyps in my colon nor any
diverticula or any signs of ulceration like George's doc
would've seen with his scope if he really had colitis.

Post by Pete
I have taken too many anti's in my life (a lot in the last
year for my prostate problems which are supposedly non
bacterial - but I took the anti's anyway - just in case
something was deep or as a prophylactic). I have been
through all this before in this group and with you and
Jerry in the IC ng. But Derek is right about the anti's
they can mess you up. I also took acidophilus with them,
but that doesn't guarantee anything.

I missed something, what do anti's have to do with the
prostate?

Post by Pete
I am rambling and ran out of steam :-) ...Pete

Don't worry about it or the cross-posting, Pete. I wish all
three of us luck in finding solutions to our various problems.
About the only thing we all have in common is IC, with a mild
overlap of IBS.

You know, IC should be renamed ICS (Interstitial Cysitis
Syndrome), since it is not a disease but a series of symptom,
the same as IBS or any other "syndrome". Then, there's Down's
Syndrome...The God Damn medical profession just cannot make up
its mind what to call this stuff, they are just totally
useless for a broad spectrum of non-life threatening but very
obnoxion/painful conditions.

--
ATM, aka Jerry

Pete

2006-02-09 22:52:28 UTC

Post by All Things Mopar
Today Pete commented courteously on the subject at hand

Jerry...I used to tell you all about this long ago in the IC ng. Don't you
remember our long discussions on doctors :-) .

Post by All Things Mopar
Maybe I should be more agressive since I am on a very slippery
downhill slope right now. It is my IBS that is getting worse
almost by the day.
I get "stopped up" for days at a time, but it isn't classical
constipation in that when I do have a BM, it isn't very small,
very hard pellets of shit. The first BM is an effort, which
wrecks havoc with my 'roids, but once it starts, the stool is
actually quite soft due to the 4-6 generic stool softeners I
take after every meal.
It has only been a month, maybe less, since I made the
connection between my IC hurting - even with a Foley in place
right now - and my colonic condition. As I get more stopped
up, the IC gets worse. And, after my shitter lets loose, the
IC gets bad again. What caused me to finally make the
connection was my doc telling me a couple of times that he was
seeing the sigmoid colon pushing on the bladder. He kept
prescribing Colace and I gave up trying to get the guy to
remember I'm already taking the stuff.
Since, the "constipation" as I feel it also causes my severe
nausea, again on the stopped up side and the loose stool side
of my cycles, is somehow related, if I can somehow fix
whatever is causing the shit to stay in, I'll solve my nausea
and IC problem at the same time. Or, so I'd like to think.
I guess I've got to bite the bullet and go to the U of M med
center like I've been told and have an IBS consult, with the
usual tests. What it feels like to me is that the very soft
stool gets caught where the transverse colon makes a right
angle turn to the descending color. Egad, a tumor?! I haven't
had a colonoscopy in 4+ years, but my gastro guy and
everything I've ever read says a tumor large enough to cause
symptoms just can't grow that fast. Still...
My doc also suggested I might want to get something called a
"colon transit study" done, which simply involves swallowing
some kinds pill that can be tracked via some sort of X-rays as
it travels though the colon. He says there's no side effects
(yeah, right!) and is often incidative of a nerve or motility
muscle problem.

I take no anti-H's since it originally contributed to my
urinary retention, so I guess I'm not in the same boat as you
and George.

Jerry...I was talking about antibiotics. I guess you missed that. The
thread is getting out of hand.

Post by All Things Mopar

I missed something, what do anti's have to do with the
prostate?

Jerry it was antibiotics - you just referred to anti-H's just above this
(antibiotics are often used to treat prostatitis - even if it may seem non
bacterial and the doc isn't totally sure). And you have been talking all
about your bowels haven't you (just above this) and I was saying that
antibiotics can mess up your bowels (and was agreeing with Derek) Like I
said the thread is getting out of hand. I think we should stop...Pete

Post by All Things Mopar

Post by Pete
I am rambling and ran out of steam :-) ...Pete

Don't worry about it or the cross-posting, Pete. I wish all
three of us luck in finding solutions to our various problems.
About the only thing we all have in common is IC, with a mild
overlap of IBS.
You know, IC should be renamed ICS (Interstitial Cysitis
Syndrome), since it is not a disease but a series of symptom,
the same as IBS or any other "syndrome". Then, there's Down's
Syndrome...The God Damn medical profession just cannot make up
its mind what to call this stuff, they are just totally
useless for a broad spectrum of non-life threatening but very
obnoxion/painful conditions.

All Things Mopar

2006-02-09 23:31:29 UTC

Today Pete commented courteously on the subject at hand

Post by All Things Mopar
75 docs? WTF?! Now /that/ is a bad experience! Even with
pretty good insurance, unless I wanted to travel all
around the country, I'd have a tough time finding anything
near that many to see, much less fire, as you apparently
have.

Jerry...I used to tell you all about this long ago in the
IC ng. Don't you remember our long discussions on doctors
:-) .

I have early onset Alzheimer's, Pete. <grin> I do remember all
of us on the IC NG (where I'm posting from right now) talking
about bad experiences with doctors but I don't recall you're
quoting such a large number of duds.

Post by All Things Mopar
I take no anti-H's since it originally contributed to my
urinary retention, so I guess I'm not in the same boat as
you and George.

Jerry...I was talking about antibiotics. I guess you
missed that. The thread is getting out of hand.

Yes, I missed it, and yes, it is getting out-of-hand. People
have been talking about both "antis", anti-histamines and
anti-biotics. Without re-re-rereading, I can and do get things
mixed up.

Post by All Things Mopar
I missed something, what do anti's have to do with the
prostate?

Jerry it was antibiotics - you just referred to anti-H's
just above this (antibiotics are often used to treat
prostatitis - even if it may seem non bacterial and the doc
isn't totally sure). And you have been talking all about
your bowels haven't you (just above this) and I was saying
that antibiotics can mess up your bowels (and was agreeing
with Derek) Like I said the thread is getting out of hand.
I think we should stop...Pete

Yes, I was talking about my form of IBS. I know that
antibiotics can mess up the bowel, but that is /not/ one of my
problems. I am only alergic to one, MacroBid used to treat
UTIs, and it gives me a burning sensation in the mouth. I had
4 months of loose stool 20+ years ago from an anti-B my
dentist prescribed, but that's the only time.

And, yes, let's stop. I was venting the same as I perceive you
were. I wasn't expecting anyone to tell me there's a magic
bullet out that that will cure all my ills.

--
ATM, aka Jerry

George

2006-02-10 02:18:38 UTC

George...You don't understand the complications I have with doctors. I
used to discuss this with you and Jerry in the IC ng (been to over 75
docs in my life - nothing to show for it - da da da da). And you don't
even have insurance (god bless you). There is a doctor in the bph ng
called Dr. Sancha who is awesome and one of the few good doctors in the
damn planet IMO (although I can only speak for the U.S.). You and Jerry
wouldn't know him because you are reading all this in the IC site because
of the damn cross posting (that has ruined this thread).
Anyway when you make a statement like "I would have a serious discussion
of this issue with your doctor". Which doctor - my damn primary care,
who doesn't do anything and says it is not his cog, or the damn uro's who
have allowed me to take too many anti's which is probably more
responsible for any type of intestinal problems than the PPI's (like
Derek has said - Derek is absolutely right about this), or my gastro (I'm
on my last one where I live) and he is another doc I don't like, and will
be doing my routine EGD's to check my polyps. I will ask the general
surgeon for a colonoscopy when I see him on Feb 24, but the prep will
ruin me, and I don't know how they can even identify the inflammation
from the prep from colitis. The preps tear me up.
Anyway I told you I can not live without the PPI's, but if I have more
than 50 polyps on my next EGD, I don't know what to do. Last gastro
tried to remove them twice [EGD's were six weeks apart, and my PPI's
coincidentally stopped working (but I think it had something to do with
the surgery), and he dismissed me because I was suffering like hell and
said he could not help me when I kept calling - bastard]. My current
gastro is an old timer and doesn't believe in removing fundic polyps if
they are hyperplastic. But there has to be a limit if the son of bitches
keep growing like wild fire.
I have taken too many anti's in my life (a lot in the last year for my
prostate problems which are supposedly non bacterial - but I took the
anti's anyway - just in case something was deep or as a prophylactic). I
have been through all this before in this group and with you and Jerry in
the IC ng. But Derek is right about the anti's they can mess you up. I
also took acidophilus with them, but that doesn't guarantee anything.
I am rambling and ran out of steam :-) ...Pete

Post by George
Research it on the internet, print out anything you can find on it,
and take that information with you.

I was referring to the doctor who prescribed the PPI. I don't know what
else to tell you, Pete. Like I said, I'm not a doctor. All I can do is
relate my experience with them.

George

Pete

2006-02-10 02:56:54 UTC

Post by George
Research it on the internet, print out anything you can find on it,
and take that information with you.

I was referring to the doctor who prescribed the PPI. I don't know
what else to tell you, Pete. Like I said, I'm not a doctor. All I
can do is relate my experience with them.
George

That's okay George. Hell even if you were a doctor it wouldn't matter. I
have gotten most of my PPI's from my ex-primary in the past, but I can get
them from my gastro also. Currently I am buying over the counter prilosec
which I started on my own after the prevacid stopped working and protonix
didn't help either. My doctors could care less and the gastro told me not
to worry too much about the polyps - ha. I'm taking 20 mg/day which is not
prescribable (only the 10's and 40's are Rx). That makes a lot of damn
sense doesn't it (ie you can buy 20 mgs OTC but you have to have an Rx for
10mgs (I can understand needing the Rx for the bigger dose 40mg).

Anyway it costs a little more than if I used my insurance and paid my 25% (I
get it at Sam's), and naturally your not supposed to take it more than 14
days - lol . Doctor's have been prescribing PPI's long term for patients
ever since they lifted the ban on that around 1995.

Derek F

2006-02-09 18:06:11 UTC

Post by George
Hi Jerry. Yes I am all aware of the agony non-life-threatening pain.
On another note, I also have a hiatal hernia. My family doctor
prescribed nexium for the condition back in 2004. I was on the
medication for about 9 months. In November of that year I developed
a really bad case of infectious colitis. I have to say that that was
about the worst illness I've ever experienced. Because I am
unemployed, I stopped taking that medication after the prescription
ran out, and started using standard antacids when I need it, which
helps. About a month ago, I learned that the FDA has warned that
proton pump inhibitors like nexium shuts down natural defenses
against certain bacterial infections of the intestines and colon, and
can lead to severe infectious colitis. Can you believe it???

George...Could you find the site or whatever where you learned about the
FDA warning. I have been on PPI's for 8 years now, and can't live without
them. I am on my third one now since my prevacid stopped working in 2004
(went through hell). They have caused fundic polyps in my stomach, which
scares the hell out of me but can't do anything about. Hiatel hernia
surgery (or fundos) is major surgery and can mess up your vagus nerve -
then you may not be able to swallow or burp or vomit (bad stuff - a
general surgeon told me hiatel hernia surgery made colostomies look like a
walk in the park).
If what you say is true, now I am really screwed. I know I have
proctotitis and/or sigmoid colitis as I write this, and have had severe
rectal pain along with my uro problems in last few months. Just had third
hemorrhoid surgery last August, and all the surgeons banded up and dropped
my insurance. There is one left that takes my insurance, and I can't get
to see him till Feb 24. I don't get along with doctors, so I am worried
about the upcoming visit.
For what it's worth the PPI's are about ten times more effective than H2
blockers (zantac,etc), and infinitely better than OTC antacids. H2
blockers won't touch my GERD and antacids are a joke. And if you take
antacids all the time you could end up with more trouble than taking PPI's
(either the metal ones or the calcium ones).
Please see if you can find that site about the FDA. Thanks...Pete
For the

What finally helped me with the IBS type symptoms after the triple therapy
was Turmeric (do a google search) I used it in scrambled egg, mixed it in a
cup of hot milk etc. I think it made my heartburn worse but it sure helped
the IBS symptoms. So much so that I did not need to finish the jar.
Aloe Vera also helps, my wife had severe stomach pain and was admitted to
hospital as an emergency about 9 years ago. They did all the test and found
nothing physically wrong but the pain persisted. After months I suggested
Aloe Vera within a couple of months she was much better so she stopped
taking it. The symptoms came back so now she takes it all the time. When we
are away from home she takes it in capsule form.
Derek.
Derek.

Pete

2006-02-09 20:41:24 UTC

Derek

Post by Derek F
What finally helped me with the IBS type symptoms after the triple
therapy was Turmeric (do a google search) I used it in scrambled egg,
mixed it in a cup of hot milk etc. I think it made my heartburn worse
but it sure helped the IBS symptoms. So much so that I did not need
to finish the jar. Aloe Vera also helps, my wife had severe stomach pain
and was
admitted to hospital as an emergency about 9 years ago. They did all
the test and found nothing physically wrong but the pain persisted.
After months I suggested Aloe Vera within a couple of months she was
much better so she stopped taking it. The symptoms came back so now
she takes it all the time. When we are away from home she takes it in
capsule form. Derek.
Derek.

Derek...tried aloe vera in juice form long ago. Ughhh!! The most bitter
nasty tasting thing in the world (even got the orange flavor). The regular
flavor was out of sight :-):-) . Didn't help anyway, but didn't take it
long - couldn't stand it :-) ...Pete

Pete

2006-02-06 18:38:51 UTC